4506 failure

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mitchntx

New member
In another thread I posted about finding a really nice 4506

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=499338

I took it to the range Friday and after about 5 or 6 rounds of 200g +P the extractor wouldn't catch the empty casing and pull it out of the breach.

It wasn't stuck ... drop the mag and the empty casing would fall out without an issue. A small "scratch could be seen on the end where it looked like it tried.

Now, that's the only ammo I took with me. So I packed it up and came home.

Took it back today.

This time I had some 230 grain FMJ (aluminum case) and it ripped through two or three mags without an issue.

Loaded up the +P and it began having the same problem pulling the empty case from the breach.

The gun was clean and well lubed.
Happened no matter which mag I used.

My first thought was an extractor problem ... find a gunsmith.

But because it worked with a lighter load, maybe its a recoil spring issue and causing a timing problem. The spring was mentioned in a thread on SW forums ...



I'd like to hear other's thoughts as well.
 
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mr kablammo

New member
I joined the S&W forum years ago but have forgotten the UN and PW. Usually a great resource. Take a look at the chamber. Is it shiny or are there dark rings? Is the chamber bright or less-reflective? The fired cases may be held by a rough chamber. I know a guy who fixed this problem using Simichrome and an old t-shirt.
 
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1goodshot

New member
Mine came with 2 recoil springs, 1 for reduced loads. Dont know why that would cause it to not extract but Im not a gunsmith.
 
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1911Jeeper

New member
I had a 4006 that broke the extractor. It would fire but not extract using several different mags and ammo brands. Gunsmith install a new extractor and it worked as it should. Either your extractor is faulty or the spring is weak, consider replacing both.
 
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fastbolt

New member
Send it back to S&W (with a detailed explanation of what occurred when each type of ammunition was used), or find a gunsmith familiar with 3rd gen pistols.

While there's no way to be able to know what's happening with a gun without being able to examine it in person, I'd not be surprised to discover you have an issue with the extractor spring and/or the extractor.

The harder recoil force acting on the extractor spring when the +P loads are being fired ... (during what's sometimes called the "moment of mass", when the extractor spring is initially resisting the movement of the extractor's tail inward) ... might be over-powering an extractor spring that's just about worn out. If that's the case, at some point the same "issue" is probably going to be observed when standard pressure loads are being used.

There's an optimal recommended tension range (low & high) for the extractor springs in S&W pistols that use their pivoting extractor. It varies by caliber/model line.

The tension is measured using a force dial gauge (an attachment of which is hooked over the extractor's hook) at the moment of deflection of the extractor's tail when pulling outward on the extractor hook. While there's a "standard" extractor spring listed for each caliber, S&W also has optional extractor springs available (heavier/lighter than standard) for the technician, armorer or gunsmith to use to get any particular pistol running within spec.

If a new extractor is required (damaged hook), a new extractor is adjusted and fitted to any particular slide by filing the adjustment pad, and the "fit" is checked by using a factory-provided Go/No-Go bar gauge.

They used to also use a flag gauge (also a Go/No-Go gauge, to check the dimension between the rear of the extractor hook & the breech face directly behind it), but new manufacturing tolerances made that second gauge unnecessary for fitting new extractors. Armorers are only sold the standard Go/No-Go bar gauge for fitting extractors on 3rd gen guns nowadays.

Naturally, after a new extractor spring and extractor pass the bench checks using the gauges, the final test is out on firing line, when the gun is fired with examples of the ammunition that's going to be normally used.

A worn recoil spring can also cause some issues, and they're rather inexpensive to order from the factory and are drop-in parts.
 
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mitchntx

New member
Geez ... thanks for all the input ... from everyone.

I ordered a recoil spring from Wolff. My thought was it certainly couldn't hurt to have a spare, if the problem doesn't go away.

And spending $10 in an attempt to fix seemed a reasonable enough attempt.
 
G

G. Freeman

New member
Send it back to S&W (with a detailed explanation of what occurred when each type of ammunition was used),
Click to expand...

Amen! Those extractor pins are very difficult to remove and you may very well end up marring or damaging the frame. I wouldn't try to change the extractor spring myself.

Also check to see how an empty case fits in the breechface (with the gun field-stripped). While you're at it, check the extractor? Is is damaged?

Good luck!
 
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mitchntx

New member
To be clear ...

If it comes down to working on the extractor, I will more than likely send it back to Smith. I certainly haven't been impressed with local gunsmiths.

It's the recoil spring I'm changing myself to see if a relaxed spring may be causing timing problems simce it only has the problem while using +P loads.
 
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