.45 LC...Starting the bullet into the case.

Doc Hoy

New member
Guys,

The way my bullets cast I get an O.D. of right around .454. with the lead I am using. It is a Lee 90234 mold. My lead is measuring right around BHN 8 to BHN 16

The case expanding die (also from Lee) opens the cases up such that the bullet requires a bit of yutzing to get it to start into the case. I was doing this by hand because I could not rely upon the press to start the bullet if I just sat it on top of the case.

Problem with doing it by hand is that I could not consistently get the bullet alignment right. In addition, handling the bullets left an awful lot of lube on my fingers and wiped the lube out of the grooves.

So I came up with a contraption that starts the bullet with great alignment every time. It reduces the amount of handling and smooths the lube into the grooves of the bullet.

It is made up of three components. One is a block of rock maple that is inletted to hold the case firmly in place in a rim up position. The second piece is made of a block of ABS plastic with a hole drilled though it. The hole has two different diameters. The smaller diameter is the perfect size to accept the bullet with a very little bit of force required to push it into the hole. The larger diameter is big enough to fit snuggly over the brass case. The third component is a little wooden Tee handle made from an oak handle and a dowel.

To use it, I lube the bullet and then force it through the larger diameter hole in the plastic block and into the smaller diameter part of the hole in the block. I put the bullet in nose first from larger diameter hole to smaller diameter hole. It stays put in the smaller diameter hole because of the snug fit with the nose just peaking out of the hole.

Then I put the casing with powder and card into the maple block to hold it upright and secure.

I put the plastic block with the bullet in it over the maple block with the bullet in perfect alignment with the case.

I then use the Tee handle to force the bullet about a 16th inch into the case.

Then I put the cartridge with the bullet into the press and seat and the crimp the bullet normally.

The plastic block holds the bullet secure in the right alignment. It also distrubutes the lube properly into the grooves.

I noticed when seating the bullet with the press that a little extra force is needed if the bullet alignment isn't right. This makes sense and I was concerned I was damaging the bullets because of this alignment problem. When I use my little contraption, since the alignment is always the same (and hopefully always right) I use the same force each time I seat the bullet.
 

Hawg

New member
Sounds like you don't have your expander set up right. My 44-40 sizes cases to the original dimensions of .427 and wont expand enough to start a .430 bullet. I just use a wad punch and a hammer and add a little bell to them. I could us a 44 mag expander ball but that would be too much like right.
 

Doc Hoy

New member
Hawg....

when I use this starter I don't get any lead shaved or anything.

The bullet is just a little too tight to start by hand.

I'll shoot some photos of this stuff as soon as I gets off my a __ __.
 

TomADC

New member
I pan lube then run the bullets thru a Lee lube-sizer of the proper size, they do make a .454 along with a couple of others. Less than $20.00 Clean the bullet up also.
 

Doc Hoy

New member
Two responses..

Shotgun,

Uberti Cattleman

Tom,

I thought that the lube sizer was intended for use with Liquid Alox....

Does it work with black powder lube too? or perhaps does Liquid Alox work well as a black powder bullet lube?

Tnx in advance for the info...
 
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Doc Hoy

New member
Tom....

I think I may have just found the answer for my own question.

A post on the Midway site (BTW, the sizer is on sale for 15.99) from a guy in Texas speaks of using bore lube in the sizer on the bullets.

I must confess I am only now getting a feel for how this sizer works. Since my first reaction (apparently an incorrect one) was that the thing only worked with a lube that was not right for BP applications, I didn't even bother to familiarize myself with it. I think maybe I might should take a closer look.
 

Doc Hoy

New member
I took the plunge

Just bought a Lube Sizer (Lee) from Titan Reloading. Even with Midway putting it on sale it was cheaper at Titan in the long run.

Also bought a four stage turret for the press.

I must say that I like dealing with Titan Reloading. Their prices are good, service is fast. Shipping is very reasonable (This package was 8.05 for priority mail and the addition of the turret to the order did not increase the shipping by even one cent). They take paypal.

On the down side, they handle almost exclusively Lee products and if you don't like Lee, you probably would find a different distributer to be more to your liking.
 

Doc Hoy

New member
Photos

Photos of this contraption

Seater1.jpg


The three pieces

Seater2.jpg


Hre you can see the difference inthe diameters of the holes

Seater3.jpg


The bullet goes in, nose first and is pushed from the large diameter to the small diameter
 
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Doc Hoy

New member
More photos

Here, the dullet is seated with the grooves all the way into the small diameter.

Seater4.jpg


Then the bullet in the block is positioned over the shell and the tee handle pushes the bullet into the case just far enough toget it started.

Seater5.jpg


From here the bullet goes into the press for final seating and crimping.

Perhaps when I get better at this, I won't need this device to get the bullet started straight.
 

billcarey

New member
You may want to try a Lyman Multi-expand die. It expands the case just for the bullet to be easy to set into the case and then flares the mouth to whatever you adjust it to. It's standard with their dies if you buy a set.

bc
 
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TomADC

New member
Barry, I pan lube with Emments lube its a BP lube then run the bullets thru the Lee lube/sizer. Works great.
 

Doc Hoy

New member
Bill and Tom

Thanks for the info.

Tom,

I have never messed with Alox, but as it calls itself a liquid I am assuming it is relatively runny.

Perhaps that is not correct.

Is Emments a thicker consistency? More like the combination tallow beeswax crisco, toilet donut based stuff?
 

TomADC

New member
I use Buck Emmert's Lube Formula (for black powder)

1750 grains Beeswax
1368 grains Crisco Shortening (White)
328 grains Crisco or Wesson Vegatable Oil

This recipe makes 1/2 pound lubricant. If you tray lube as I do, you'll probably
want to double the recipe.
I also now substitute Anhydrous lanolin for the vegatable oil.

I use a WalMart cheapie crock pot to melt this in, I then use a turkey baster to put it in the pan with the bullets standing up.

BTW I have never used Alox
 

Hawg

New member
Alox is a liquid. You pour a little bit over the bullets and roll them around for coverage. let them sit overnight and it hardens up to stickiness. Not a really messy sticky but sticky nonetheless.
 

Doc Hoy

New member
Two responses....plus a general question

Tom,

Your mix (Emmert's) appears to be close to what I was considering now that I came up with some beeswax. I was going to use olive oil for the oil.

Two questions:

1. Can you say why you went to lanolin?
2. Does this make a lube which retains its consistency in hot weather?

Hawg,

Thanks for the heads up on Alox. I will get a bit of it when i get the lube sizer kit. So I will give it a try. My hope is that it keeps the fouling soft in the .45 Long Colt pistol.

General:

Why is mutton tallow chosen over lard?

Tnx,
 

TomADC

New member
I like the lanolin the lube seems to stay better in hot weather and fouling has been pretty easy to clean up.
Doc olive oil is for salads!

BTW this lube is sticky but has never been runny.
 

Malamute

New member
There's a differecne between Alox and Lee's liquid Alox. Alox bullet lube has been around for ages, and comes in round hollow sticks meant for easy use in the common (Lyman) luber/sizers. It isn't generally thought of as a good black powder lube, though I've used it for black in a Winchester 1886 and Colt single action 44 spl with decent results. The regular Alox meant for luber sizers is stickier than most lubes on commecially cast bullets, and is a bit more dirty to work with because of that, but I found it to be a good general purpose lube in the loads I mentioned, smokeless loads in the 45-70, and in the 44 magnum. I think it's head and shoulders better lube than any hard crayon like lube on the commercially cast bullets on the market.

I agree that your expander isn't adjusted right. When the flair is right, all you should have to do is set the bullet on top of the case and run the press ram up, seating and crimping. It will align going into the seating die. You can buy just the Lyman "M" expanding die that has the stepped expander for getting cast bullets started straight, though I've not had any troubles with the normal RCBS dies. With regular RCBS dies set to expand correctly, you should get zero lead shaving.
 
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