.45 GAP
- Thread starter moosemike
- Start date
Aguila Blanca
Staff
It wasn't ever intended as a niche between .40 S&W and .45 ACP. By design, the .45 GAP was intended to duplicate the ballistic performance of the .45 ACP cartridge in a round with the length of 9mm and .40 S&W. This would allow GAP to produce a .45 caliber double stack pistol that people with small hands could hold and fire. For that purpose, it succeeded. The problem was (and is) that there are enough other pistols firing the .45 ACP round that individuals are police departments who want .45 caliber ammunition can just buy a smaller pistol that takes .45 ACP, rather than buying the GAP with its considerably smaller ammunition availability. The other problem is that in order to acjieve .45 ACP performance in a shorter cartridge, they had to bump it up to essentially +P pressures for the baseline .45 GAP cartridge. That's why you don't see .45 GAP +P ammo for sale.
Perhaps not a "bad" idea, but certainly not a great one.
Perhaps not a "bad" idea, but certainly not a great one.
carguychris
New member
Not according to what I've read, which almost universally says that the goal was to duplicate .45 ACP ballistics in a cartridge that could fit in a Glock with a G17/19/26 grip frame rather than the fatter G20/21 grip frame.Lohman446 said:
The idea was to appeal to LE agencies with smaller (read: female) officers who had trouble with the larger grip. This was before the introduction of the smaller SF frame.
The cartridge really doesn't do anything that .45 ACP can't do, and yet it won't work in a proverbial bazillion legacy pistols, which is the primary reason for its poor market acceptance. It's an answer to a question very few people are asking.
More of my prior comments here.
The 45 GAP (Glock Automatic Pistol) was introduced in 2003. It operates at a standard pressure of 23,000 psi which compares to the +P pressure for the 45 acp (21,000 standard pressure, 23,000+P). It could duplicate the performance of the 45 acp with most standard weight bullets.
The 45 GAP is the same diameter as the 45 acp (.473") but has a shorter case (.760").
This meant a single stack Glock that was the same size through the grip as a piece in 40 S&W and just as short. That meant less capacity than a 40 S&W as well. A G37 holds 10 rounds, while a G22 holds 15.
The issue with 45 GAP was that it had no market in law enforcement. At the time it was introduced the bulk of law enforcement had transitioned to 40 S&W and was satisfied with that, those that weren't had the 9mm and were satisfied with that. Those two rounds dominated the law enforcement market. There was no pressing reason to move to the 45 GAP. There was no great demand from law enforcement or the military for a gun that was not a Sig P220 or a 1911 that fired a substitute for the 45 acp that had less capacity than a 10mm or a 40 S&W or 357 Sig.
The same was true in the commercial market. At hat time there were double stack 1911s on the market that carried 14 rounds.
It's a niche cartridge somewhere below the 10mm, 38 Super and the .357 Sig.
tipoc
The 45 GAP is the same diameter as the 45 acp (.473") but has a shorter case (.760").
This meant a single stack Glock that was the same size through the grip as a piece in 40 S&W and just as short. That meant less capacity than a 40 S&W as well. A G37 holds 10 rounds, while a G22 holds 15.
The issue with 45 GAP was that it had no market in law enforcement. At the time it was introduced the bulk of law enforcement had transitioned to 40 S&W and was satisfied with that, those that weren't had the 9mm and were satisfied with that. Those two rounds dominated the law enforcement market. There was no pressing reason to move to the 45 GAP. There was no great demand from law enforcement or the military for a gun that was not a Sig P220 or a 1911 that fired a substitute for the 45 acp that had less capacity than a 10mm or a 40 S&W or 357 Sig.
The same was true in the commercial market. At hat time there were double stack 1911s on the market that carried 14 rounds.
It's a niche cartridge somewhere below the 10mm, 38 Super and the .357 Sig.
tipoc
The 45GAP served a role: briefly. The original Glock 21 and 30 in 45 ACP had huge grips that some people simply couldn't handle. Other manufacturers offered handguns in 45 ACP with grips that were much smaller and user friendly.
Glock came up with a shorter version of the 45 ACP cartridge and designed a gun with a shorter grip (front to back) that was more user friendly for those with smaller hands. I could never see where the GAP offered the same advantages with any other make of handgun.
Once Glock figured out how to make the G20, G21, G29, and G30 with the SF version (short frame), it eliminated the need for the 45GAP. The newer guns with interchangeable back straps do the same thing.
Glock came up with a shorter version of the 45 ACP cartridge and designed a gun with a shorter grip (front to back) that was more user friendly for those with smaller hands. I could never see where the GAP offered the same advantages with any other make of handgun.
Once Glock figured out how to make the G20, G21, G29, and G30 with the SF version (short frame), it eliminated the need for the 45GAP. The newer guns with interchangeable back straps do the same thing.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
It might be of interest to point out that the Springfield Armory EMP (Enhanced Micro Pistol) was initially designed and publicized as .45 GAP, and there was one (maybe two or three) prototype in .45 GAP that made the rounds of the gun magazines and appeared on some covers. But Springfield never went into production with the EMP in .45 GAP -- when the EMP hit the market, it was 9and is) offered in 9mm and .40 S&W).
There was simply no point to offering it in .45 GAP.
There was simply no point to offering it in .45 GAP.
Uncle Malice
New member
Wrong. 45GAP was released in 2004.
The G21 SF frames were released in 2007.
It doesn't make much difference but it was introduced in 2003.
Here's a nice short article from American Rifleman on the 45 GAP.
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2014/4/8/the-45-gap/
A bit from Shooting Times:
http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammo/ammunition_new_45/
tipoc
Here's a nice short article from American Rifleman on the 45 GAP.
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2014/4/8/the-45-gap/
A bit from Shooting Times:
http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammo/ammunition_new_45/
tipoc
45 Gap in Glock 38 (for ex) would be more popular if nationwide AWB (1994-2004) or in stupid 10 round mag limit states.
A Glock 19/23 with artificially restricted 10 round mag is sick / stupid.
Glock 38 has same grip 19/23 but holds 8 rounds, as designed, no stupid artificial limit.
Some folks if limited to 10 rounds would prefer larger bullets with a 9mm size grip = 45 GAP.
A Glock 19/23 with artificially restricted 10 round mag is sick / stupid.
Glock 38 has same grip 19/23 but holds 8 rounds, as designed, no stupid artificial limit.
Some folks if limited to 10 rounds would prefer larger bullets with a 9mm size grip = 45 GAP.
Cosmodragoon
New member
We've already got some good answers here but I'll add my own.
I like innovative or interesting rounds. I carry .327 Federal when I'm not wearing a cover garment. It offers decent power, reasonable recoil, and more capacity in a wheel gun. I like .357 Sig. It seeks to emulate 125-grain loads in .357 magnum but at two or three times the capacity in a semi-auto. I like .40 S&W, which I think does fill a welcome gap in the 9mm vs .45 (or 10mm) consideration for both duty and concealed carry.
So the question for me is if .45 GAP offers anything novel, valuable, useful, or interesting. The idea seems to be to emulate .45 acp in smaller-framed guns. That would have been appealing to me if it had been released a decade earlier. The problem is that .40 S&W had already become both successful and widely available. Being able to shoot 165-180 grain projectiles at decent speeds in a more diverse selection of firearms with generally higher capacities... I just don't see the .45 GAP as offering a whole lot.
The comment about technology adapting to bad laws is interesting. Given a magazine restriction, might I then choose .45 GAP over .40 S&W? Probably not because it still isn't offering that much more. (A magazine restriction might also help revolvers compete for my carry selection.) If there was an equalizing magazine restriction AND .45 GAP was common AND it was offered in more styles of firearm, I suppose I might be more friendly towards it... maybe.
I like innovative or interesting rounds. I carry .327 Federal when I'm not wearing a cover garment. It offers decent power, reasonable recoil, and more capacity in a wheel gun. I like .357 Sig. It seeks to emulate 125-grain loads in .357 magnum but at two or three times the capacity in a semi-auto. I like .40 S&W, which I think does fill a welcome gap in the 9mm vs .45 (or 10mm) consideration for both duty and concealed carry.
So the question for me is if .45 GAP offers anything novel, valuable, useful, or interesting. The idea seems to be to emulate .45 acp in smaller-framed guns. That would have been appealing to me if it had been released a decade earlier. The problem is that .40 S&W had already become both successful and widely available. Being able to shoot 165-180 grain projectiles at decent speeds in a more diverse selection of firearms with generally higher capacities... I just don't see the .45 GAP as offering a whole lot.
The comment about technology adapting to bad laws is interesting. Given a magazine restriction, might I then choose .45 GAP over .40 S&W? Probably not because it still isn't offering that much more. (A magazine restriction might also help revolvers compete for my carry selection.) If there was an equalizing magazine restriction AND .45 GAP was common AND it was offered in more styles of firearm, I suppose I might be more friendly towards it... maybe.
It was an amazing idea for Glock, and a terrible idea for everyone else. Think of all the money Glock could have saved on tooling for .45 ACP frames when they could have just reused their 9mm/.40 frames.
Honestly, it's pure classic Glock. They'd rather invent a new caliber than fix their ergonomics.
Honestly, it's pure classic Glock. They'd rather invent a new caliber than fix their ergonomics.
SPEMack618
New member
A buddy said that the Colonel of Georgia State Patrol was drinking when they adopted the .45 GAP as a service cartridge.
And then sobered up and got rid of it. And then promptly started drinking again when they went back to G17.
Jimbo likes the .40 S&W as his preferred duty round.
But yes, the .45 GAP was answer to a question very few people were asking.
One point in it's favor was that the full sized Glock 37 would fit in the same holster as a G17, as would the magazines in the respective pouches.
And then sobered up and got rid of it. And then promptly started drinking again when they went back to G17.
Jimbo likes the .40 S&W as his preferred duty round.
But yes, the .45 GAP was answer to a question very few people were asking.
One point in it's favor was that the full sized Glock 37 would fit in the same holster as a G17, as would the magazines in the respective pouches.
My buddy back in PA paid $325 for his Glock 38 bought barely used, it probably had 50 rounds through it, but it came with six 8 round magazines. The guy he bought it from took the beating on it but my friend reaped the benefit.
This gun is a Glock 19 form factor that shoots 45 caliber, so good holsters are never a problem, and is a total pleasure to shoot. He finds ammo at gun shows and online and it’s usually the same price and sometimes cheaper than .45ACP ammo. He has a stash of Fed AE, Speer Lawman, UMC, and Win WB factory ammo for it, but he reloads his brass which you have to if you want to keep shooting it. He carries it with Speer Gold Dots and he also has Fed HST JHP’s for it, so .45 GAP defensive ammo is out there to be found.
It’s tough that the caliber never took off but it’s a great niche caliber that works in 9mm form factor sized Glocks, which works for anything you might want to use it for.
This gun is a Glock 19 form factor that shoots 45 caliber, so good holsters are never a problem, and is a total pleasure to shoot. He finds ammo at gun shows and online and it’s usually the same price and sometimes cheaper than .45ACP ammo. He has a stash of Fed AE, Speer Lawman, UMC, and Win WB factory ammo for it, but he reloads his brass which you have to if you want to keep shooting it. He carries it with Speer Gold Dots and he also has Fed HST JHP’s for it, so .45 GAP defensive ammo is out there to be found.
It’s tough that the caliber never took off but it’s a great niche caliber that works in 9mm form factor sized Glocks, which works for anything you might want to use it for.
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