45 Colt and Win 231

[1972RedNeck]

Loaded some 45 Colt for the first time. 200 grain cast (cheap) bullets over 8.3 gr of 231 (max load). Shoots well, but it's really dirty. Leaves flakes of charred powder in the brass, cylinder, and barrel.

Is this normal for 231 and light 45 Colt bullets?

 

[black mamba]

In my experience, yes. 231/HP38 doesn't start to burn clean until pressures get above about 21 kpsi. If your revolver is capable of tier II loads, then try 10.0 to 10.5 gr under a 200 gr bullet. It'll be much cleaner.

 

[1972RedNeck]

In my experience, yes. 231/HP38 doesn't start to burn clean until pressures get above about 21 kpsi. If your revolver is capable of tier II loads, then try 10.0 to 10.5 gr under a 200 gr bullet. It'll be much cleaner.

By "Tier 2" do you mean Ruger/Contender only loads? Or do you have data in between?

 

[mikejonestkd]

You are already over the STD pressure load that is safe for all 45 colts. I'd suggest backing off a bit, or trying a different more appropriate powder.
Winchester 231 200GR 0.452" 1.600"OAL
5.9GR 761FPS 5,800 CUP
8.0GR 1,002FPS 13,800 CUP*

* source- Hodgdon website

 

[Nick_C_S]

Im my experience, yes too.

I don't load 45 Colt, but in 38 and 44 Special, it (W231/HP-38) can be kind of dark-sooty when underloaded - especially with light bullets. With lead bullets, it seems to like to have something more "to push against," so to speak.

Just so you know, even when it's running right, it can be a little "residuey." I think it has some graphite coating or something - not sure.

 

[44 AMP]

I do not recommend fast powders in .45 Colt. Bullseye, 231 and some others reach max pressure with less than half a case full of powder. TO me, that means there are better, more suitable powders for that round.

I've been loading nothing but Unique and 250swc for about the past 35ish years and see no reason to change or go back. Yes, its a bit dirty, cast bullets often are so??

I like it, its dirty, smelly and it smokes, so, its like ME! Also my pet load clocks just a hair under 1100fps from my Ruger Blackhawk. If I want/need more, I go to a .44 Mag. I could, in my Ruger, match or even slightly exceed .44 mag, and I did do that for a while, but quit bothering.

 

[rclark]

By "Tier 2"...

Brian Peace in his reloading articles (HandLoader magazine) on the .45 Colt came up with the three tiers of loading for the .45 Colt. Tier 1 is standard SAAMI pressure loads 14K psi. Tier 2 is up to 23K psi, and Tier 3 is Ruger Only Loads 30K psi. Why Tier 2? Well the medium frame New Vaquero and the medium frame BH flattop came along which couldn't handle Tier 3 loads, but it still could handle .45 ACP which has a high end of 23K PSI. So that allows the flattops and New Vaqueros more leaway on loading the .45 Colt ie. up to Tier 2 pressures. Hope that clarifies where the 'Tiers' came from!

As for 200gr bullet loads, I can't help as the lowest bullet weight I've loaded/tested for is standard 250gr RNFPs. That said, lead will always be a bit dirty when shot. If finding unburnt powder, it usually means not enough pressure for a clean burn. I seem to recall W-231 8.0gr under a 250gr RNFP ran fairly clean ... But that doesn't help you!

 

[zeke]

Favorite pleasant shooting load for 45 LC is 200 lrnfp over 7.5 gns HP-38. If memory serves this is about 850 fps from 4 5/8 barrel. Due to the short interference fit of this bullet, the case's are neck sized with a 45 acp sizing die and not re-expanded. Then a tight roll crimp with LFC or Redding profile crimp. All my chamber throats are good fit with .452 lead, with the Rugers being .451.

At least in past times, some 45 LC chambers could be over sized which led to powder burns down the side of case with lighter loads. There can be a substantial difference in POI between 250 and 200 gn bullets at 25 yds, but the revolvers being used were adapted to be able to be sighted in at 25 yds.

 

[44 AMP]

At least in past times, some 45 LC chambers could be over sized which led to powder burns down the side of case with lighter loads.

Properly sized chambers will do this too. If the bullet leaves the case before the case MOUTH is fully sealed against the cylinder wall, you can get soot streaks down the case body, or a soot ring around the case mouth. Neither is anything more than cosmetic.

 

[Jim Watson]

Thin .44-40 brass seals black and light smokeless better than stiff hard new .45 LC.

I have heard of annealing .45 cases to fire form easier.

 

[Rifletom]

As has been mentioned, 231 isn't the best powder for the .45 Colt. Unique, Universal and 2400 work much better. 8.0-8.5gr Unique, a 250gr rnfp coated bullet is bliss in .45 Colt firearms.

 

[Pathfinder45]

231 works just fine in the 45 Colt. Cast, greased bullets tend to be a little grimier when fired than jacketed bullets. I have other, more favored powders, so I'm not currently using 231 since I ran out. But it's no dirtier than Unique, and that's one of my favorites. It's called, "gun-shot residue". It's what happens when you shoot guns; all firearms generate it upon discharge. Some more than others, but they all do it. Try some genuine black-powder with cast bullets and you will gain a fresh appreciation for just how clean that 231 really is.