45 acp tearing paper

[Jeryray]

I had a problem last year were my 200 grain rn 45 using 4.2 bull's-eye would tear the paper on the right side..
Someone said it was probably spinning.
I went to 4.6 and I thought the problem was cured but it's back.
I've been told that I should be running 4.0, so I just made some rounds to try tomorrow I wonder what others are using.

This is a sig. super match 45 any suggestions I would appreciate.

 

[expendable]

Thin paper targets are known to tear if not placed up against a solid backer.

Make sure the target is up against the backer board tight or any round can cause the paper to tear or just shoot regular cardboard and see what the holes look like.

 

[J.G. Terry]

I had started to regularly shoot some paper with my 1911. Had been using the Lyman 452460 SWC bullets and 5 grs. of Bullseye. This load was unnecessarily heavy. Ended using 4grs of Bullseye and the 200 gr. RCBS SWC bullets .452 diameter. The load is accurate without any problems in my 45ACP handguns. I never had any problems with bullets tumbling. I would be great if you could give us a picture of the torn paper.

Added: Also add some more exact details on the bullet. Is the bullet lead or jacketed and the diameter.

 

[darkgael]

Someone said it was probably spinning.

Well, it is always gonna be spinning....the rifling does that bit. Right?
Do you mean "tumbling? or starting to tumble?
200 gr LSWC with 4.2 of Bullseye is my go to load. should not be tumbling.
If you are getting 750 fps+, your bullets should be stable.
More likely, it is the paper.
Kruger makes a heavier weight paper target.
Pete

 

[David R]

A 200 swc will be stable down to 3.5 of Bullseye.

Its just the target paper. Heavier paper or a backer will solve your problem.

David

 

[J.G. Terry]

I shoot at an indoor range where paper targets are hung from the top with no backer. The bullet holes are clean but not a clean as in target paper. Hope OP can get me out of the dark on this tear in the paper.

 

[Carmady]

Someone said it was probably spinning.

I doubt if spinning would always cause the same side of the target to rip.

 

[pete2]

A paper target needs to be flat against the backer or it will tear. My go-to is 4.2 Bullseye with a 200 cast SWC, Fed primer. 4.2 cycles most 1911s with the standard 16# spring.

 

[pwc]

I recycle my old targets by using them as backers for new targets. Some I print on bond paper and they do tear by themselves. Hang a black paper clamp, not clip, clamp, on the bottom of the suspended target to keep both sheets in contact and hold the target down while bullet passes thru
This assumes the indoor range allows, if not, just use a stapler.

 

[T. O'Heir]

RN's will do that. My cast 230 RN's with 4.5 of Bullseye do it too. It's partly the bullet and partly the paper. Isn't something to worry about though.
According to Alliant's site, 4.6 of Bullseye is the Max load for a cast 200. Which makes the Start load 4.1. It's not tumbling unless the bullet isn't lubed or is undersized. Neither of which is likely.
"...told that I should be running..." You should work up the load for accuracy beginning with the Start load. There is no "should be".
3.5 of Bullseye is way below minimum.

 

[J.G. Terry]

Torn Targets: I'm shooting my store bought targets at 3,5 or 7 yards. That fact may make a difference in bullet holes. YMMV It would be relevant to have a better description of OP's torn targets.

 

[Unclenick]

A photo would help, but a 16" twist barrel provides more stabilization than a bullet normally needs unless it is above 950 fps and getting into the transonic effect range. If the paper is all tearing at the same place around the clock, that's due to fiber direction bias in the paper. We've all see paper that will tear more easily in one direction than in another. You can prove this to yourself by mounting the target sideways and watch the direction of the tear move with it.

As already stated, you need a bullet with a semi-wadcutter edge. Maybe the Lee 230-grain Tumblelube RN would cut cleaner holes, as it has a slight lip on the perimeter of the ogive shoulder.

 

[Paul B.]

"I had a problem last year were my 200 grain rn 45 using 4.2 bull's-eye would tear the paper on the right side.."

That's normal when using round nose bullets. If I'm running regular .45 ACP hardball or a cast bullet equal I see tearing like you describe. The suggestion to try a semi-wadcutter bullet is a good one. The H&G#68 is one of the best. Lyman makes a #452460 IIRC that is a slightly different shape from the #68 and SAECO has their #068 a close clone of the H&G. I have the SAECO and Lyman molds mentioned and both are accurate and usually feed well in a 1911 or 1911 clone.
Paul B.

 

[gwpercle]

When I started shooting NRA Bullseye Match I quickly dumped the round nose bullets for semi-wadcutters that cut nice clean easy to score holes , Lyman #452460 is a winner ...round nose bullets just tore raggedy holes and made scoring much harder .... even with a cardboard target backer the RN will tear , punch, a ragged hole while the semi-wadcutter leaves a nice clean .45" hole .
Gary

 

[J.G. Terry]

What's the difference between a tear and rip?

We need to put on the brakes before we are defining tears against rips. OP needs to give us a precise description of his right hand tears in his targets. Hopefully he can provide a picture.

Added: "Folding Test – When folding a small sheet of paper, notice that it folds more easily and smoothly when the fold is parallel to the grain. ..."

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I also shoot at an indoor range. No target stands; targets are suspended from clips on the overhead runnrs, so they can swing and sway in the breeze -- and move backwards when impacted by a bullet. Even with commercial targets printed on "target" paper, holes are generally ragged if there's no backer. It's worse toward the bottom of the target (sheet), because there's less mass below the point of impact to prevent the target from starting to swing before the bullet can punch through.

The range now provides large sheets of corrugated cardboard for use as backers, and you'd be surprised (well, some of you might not) how much of a difference that can make.

 

[Jeryray]

Okay thank you for all the replies.

I did find that I should've been loading 4.2 of bull's-eye I had mismarked my datasheet.

So now I've reloaded some 4.2 with the 200 grain.
I did some test and it is better, but doubling up the target works very well and there is not much tearing, and it does seem to be heading straight just a matter of the paper quality on the paper target I guess..

I tried some semi wads but this Sig super match just doesn't like them they don't feed properly. My old 1911 will shoot anything, so for now we'll just use two targets. thanks a bunch.

 

[J.G. Terry]

I have a large batch of paper targets shot without backer with clean holes. Targets were shot at three to twenty five yards with only factory rounds in 40S&W All others are handloads. The 38 Special and 357 Magnum were with Keith style bullets. Also 44 Special and 44 Magnum gas checked SWC's. All shot in an indoor range. Also 45 ACP using lead SWC's. Exception was a 50 round group shoot 40S&W with 38 rounds inside the 9 ring on a B-27 fired fast from a Glock 23.4. I don't shoot at the bottom of the targets.
































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[J.G. Terry]

It would be still helpful to have pictures of some of these targets with torn bullet holes.

 

[buck460XVR]

I had a problem last year were my 200 grain rn 45 using 4.2 bull's-eye would tear the paper on the right side..

If the bullets were tumbling, the holes would not be uniform. As others have said, RN will not punch clean holes thru paper, and without proper backing, targets will be more torn than "punched". The tearing on the right side may be because you were not shooting perfectly perpendicular to the target.