.45 acp and Clays

[hgmeyer]

In the shortage I ran low on my three favorite powders so I tried some Clays that I could get.

Shot them and they ran fine, but I was a little surprised at how dirty they left the pistol. I have loaded .38s with Clays in the past and my notes didn't indicate that they shot this dirty. Is my memory bad, my notes deficient or is the powder just that dirty?

 

[Archie]

Hmmm.

I load a wadcutter level 200 grain lead SWC with a high end load of Clays. I don't recall it being 'dirty'. But perhaps I have different 'dirt' levels.

What sort of pressure levels do your loads generate?

 

[AlaskaMike]

I'm surprised to hear about your Clays loads being dirty. Mine are some of my cleanest loads in .45 ACP (with "clean" being an almost complete lack of powder residue).

Just to confirm though--you're talking about Clays and not Universal Clays, or International Clays, right?

What was the specific load?

 

[Pilot]

I use Clays almost exclusively for .45ACP and have never found it "dirty".

 

[hgmeyer]

Straight "Clays"... I am now wondering about the lube on the cast lead bullets... I believe the batch was from Meister....hmmm

One good thing is I am not yet senile... I did not remember Clays being dirty and my notes would have said so...

I am going to load up some with some 230gr RN from Missouri and see what happens...

Thanks for the replies.

 

[Nick_C_S]

I'd like to see more data. Bullet, amount of powder, firearm used, etc.

I don't have experience with Clays specifically, so I'm just going to chime in generically.

It's been my experience (about 30 years' worth), that just about every powder out there will burn clean when it's used as developed for its intended purpose/load quantity. If I had to guess, your loads were too light.

 

[BigJimP]

Dirty is relative.....but I find Hodgdon Clays ...and Hodgdon Universal both a little "dirty" at lower pressures...

but since I clean my guns every time I fire them, not sure it matters either...
-------------
Just as a precaution, Hodgdon Clays has a pretty large flake to it...so be careful in terms of any variation you might be getting in your powder drops...( its my favorite shotgun powder in a 12ga .../ but Hodgdon Universal or Hodgdon TiteGroup meter much better for handgun calibers in my opinion ).

 

[RickB]

I settled on Clays as my go-to .45 powder, some years ago, and clean-shooting played a part in my selection. It's probably the cleanest-shooting powder I've used in .45, rivaled only by the considerably more expensive VV N320.
Cast bullets will shoot dirty, regardless of powder.

 

[BigD_in_FL]

I want to know where you managed to find some, since they had a fire in Australia and it has been unavailable for about 6 months............

 

[hgmeyer]

I bought the powder, Clays, at Cabelas in August.

 

[WhyteP38]

I use 3.9 grains of Clays under 230-grain FMJ Zero bullets out of my Colt Commander. I find it dirty too. It cleans off pretty easily, though.

 

[pete2]

I tried it for bullseye loads in the 45 ACP, it seemed pretty clean to me, was comparing it to Bullseye. It doesn't really matter to me, I clean every 200 to 300 rounds, cleans up easily with either powder. Shooting WST now for the last 8000 rounds mostly in a revolver but quite a few in the 1911. It all just wipes off with Breakfree or Hoppe's #9. Most of the dirt is from the lube on cast bullets not the powder.

 

[hgmeyer]

Specific load (from my notebook): 230gr cast lead RN from Meister Bullets, Speer cases, Rem Small Pistol Primer, 3.8gr of Clays fired from a Colt 5" Govt model.

 

[Nick_C_S]

Sounds like Clays might just be one of those "residuey" powders. It's probably less noticeable in shotguns - which is its primary purpose. At any rate, your recipe sounds fine. I think it just is what it is. Hoppe's #9 - just sayin'.

 

[totaldla]

I was finding it hard to believe that someone had a "dirty" load with Clays, so I read this thread with interest. I've burned a couple of pounds of the stuff in 45acp and found it to be very clean. Then I caught the words "wiped off" and I realized that "dirty" didn't mean powder zombies and powder fouling like you would get with Unique. I think what the OP was experiencing was case discoloration because his load, (possibly due to the cold temps now), is so low pressure that the case isn't sealing the chamber.

Clays is temperature sensitive. You have to bump up your winter time charges.

 

[SL1]

I have not used Clays in .45 ACP yet, but have used it in .40 S&W. Working up the loads in .40 S&W indicated to me that I had to get the (calculated) peak pressure into the mid-to-high 20,000 psi range to get it to burn really clean. But, once there, it burned VERY clean. It became my go-to powder for IDPA type "minor" power-factor loads. (But it is touchy, with a small window for charge weights because it is so fast.)

Based on that, I suspect that .45 ACP loads that burn clean with Clays may be somewhat over SAAMI pressure limits for +P ammo. It could be hard to tell that from a work-up, because there is so little powder involved that the muzzle velocity and case ejection velocitiy are relatively low, and primers don't really show much in the way of pressure signs below the mid-30,000 psi range.

But, bullet lube is another source of "dirt" and smoke when using cast bullets. So, you might still get cleanER with plated bullets while staying within SAAMI pressures for the .45 ACP.

SL1

 

[RickB]

My experience with Clays has been entirely with "hot" loads, at or near max. You can't get much velocity, otherwise.
For competition, I need 850fps with a 200gr bullet, and I doubt I could do it with a jacketed bullet and Clays powder. With a polymer-coated "black bullet", I can get to 850 from a 5" barrel using the max recommended load.
From a 4" revolver, I can just make the necessary velocity with a plated 230, but don't know that I could do it with a jacketed bullet and Clays.

 

[BombthePeasants]

I'll go on the record as affirming that Clays is relatively clean burning. It was my primary powder for 3 years, until I scored an 8lb. jug of Winchester Super Field. Comparing the 2 loads (WSF vs. Clays), the Clays was definitely cleaner burning, accounting for the fact that yes, lead rounds are inherently dirtier.

 

[jaysouth]

I am on my second 8 pound jug of Clays. I load 3.9-4.0 grs under a cast H&G SWC clone touched off by WLP primers. It is very clean in that application. The only cleaner powder is VV at 50% higher cost.

 

[bluetopper]

If someone wants to keep their gun clean, don't shoot it.