45/70 reloading bullet casting

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roberto mervicini

New member
Hello, I almost terminate building my 45/70 gov. using the action of a Siamese mauser. The rifle is operational the bluing remain to be decided.
Siamese mauser action made by Tokyo Arsenal, 20" modern .458 barrel, Bushnell ScopeCief 2.75X on a Leupold STD base, R.Microfit monte carlo stock action arcagel bedded with floated barrel, limbsaver pad.
I prepared few hundred boolits wather cooled wheel w. using mold 460-350RFGC ( NOE entrprise ) idem with Lee mold 457-405F.
The gas check for the 350 boolits are Hornady #7150, both boolits are resized with Lee .457 resizer and Alox lube.
Since over30 year I reload different rifle caliber all jacketed bullets but this is my first experience with bollits.
I will be using Remington brass, WLR primer and IMR 3031 powder, since good supply on hand.
I am planning to start the 350GC around 2000fps, and the 405 at 1300fps.
Any suggestions or recommendations in regards of this reloads, are appreciated, Thanks
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roberto
 
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hk33ka1

New member
Bonsoir mon ami. I shoot a lot of the Lee 459-405-HB sized to .459" in a Custom Lee sizer and IMR 4198 (wheel weight), or as cast at .460" with pure lead for Black Powder loads. I use these in my Pedersoli Rolling Blocks. I also have the 457-340-F , and .459-500-3R Lee molds.

I am not sure which pressure levels your bolt action .45-70 can tolerate, I am using the Trapdoor Springfield level loads for smokeless powder found in my manuals.
 
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roberto mervicini

New member
Bonsoir hk33ka1,
thanks for the reply, this action is massive, will take the same pressure as any mauser 98 or Ruger #1.
I have one old Lyman reloading Handbook (45th edition ) and Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook third edition and Hornady last edition to compare data, also look at many data on line... but I din't start loadin yet.
I am still deciding on the starting point then I will crono speed and compare accuracy before setting up on only one load.
 
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Powderman

New member
Roberto, you will want to get a different sizer or a different mold for best accuracy. If your rifle has a .458 bore, your cast bullets should be used at .459.

I load for a .45-120 Sharps with a .458 bore. I use a Saeco mold from Buffalo Arms Corporation that casts the .459 diameter bullet; I hand-lube the bullets with SPG lube, then push them through a .460 sizer to make sure the bullet is not touched--I'm simply cleaning off the extra lube.

This is especially true since you're using wheelweights. Dead soft lead cast and sized to .457 might swage out to fill the bore--then again, it might not. Good luck!
 
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roberto mervicini

New member
Hi Powderman this morning after reading your comments I verify the boolits and here the results.
First I do not know if this is the proper way to slug the barrel but this is how I did: I tooke the Lee boolit and with a hammer "gently" I hammered in 3/4 of is lenght in the bore (front end) I then retrive with viise grip screwing back and measure the diameter: 0.4535 - 0.4537 - 0.4540
The 350GC not sized not lube on the gas check is 0.4610 and on the lead part of the boolit is 0.4595 - 0.4602, once this boolit is sized and lube with Alox as per instructions is on the gas check 0.4578 - 0.4582 and 0.0001 less on the lead part.
The Lee 405 resized and lube is 0.4578 - 0.4582 also.
please let me know if this sound ok.
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roberto
 
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Powderman

New member
Roberto, you're on the right path--but you altered the proper readings with you removed the bullet with vise grips. Here's how to do it...

1. Clean your barrel as good as you can.
2. Get a good weight oil, soak a patch and run it through the bore a few times, to coat the inside with oil.
3. Take one of your cast bullets, drench the outside in oil, as well.

NOTE: Before you put the bullet into the bore, get a rod--a wooden dowel will do, but a fiberglass or polymer rod is better--that will pass ALL the way through the bore. You can use a properly sized one-piece cleaning rod for this, as well. I use the Dewey rods with the solid piece on the end to protect the threads.

Now, place the rifle so that the muzzle is over a padded surface. A cleaning rest that will clamp the rifle is ideal.
NOTE: Make VERY sure that the bullet is oversized before you begin, otherwise your readings will be in error.

Drop the lead bullet (NOT jacketed) that is well oiled into the chamber of the rifle. Push it is until it seats firmly. Now, support the rod and tap on the end with a rawhide or rubber mallet until the bullet drops from the muzzle.

4. Now, wipe the bullet clean--GENTLY.
5. With a caliper, measure the bullet at three different places along the bearing surface--where the rifling is. Measure with the jaws of the caliper across the solid surface, not where the grooves are.
6. Add your measurements together, and divide by three. The first four digits will give you the actual bore diameter of your rifle.

For instance, if your bore measures .4578, round it up to the nearest ten-thousandth; in this case, it would be .4580.

Take a ook at Buffalo Arms. They sell molds sized to the thousandth of an inch. For a .458 bore, get a .459 mold. For a .457 bore, get a .458 mold; you get the picture.

Final note: when slugging your bore, do NOT use a bullet with the gas check seated.
 
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roberto mervicini

New member
Hi Powderman,
Definitely the boolits that I cast and resize are larger than the bore, even if my way was not the proper way to verify, they went in very tight when I tested.
I will enquire with a hardware store if they have some pure lead ( maybe the sleeve to repair toilette is pure lead ?) and I will cast couple of boolits to slug the barrel as per instructions.
Thanks
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roberto
 
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hornetguy

New member
Using pure lead is STRONGLY recommended.

an alternative, if available locally, would be to buy a small quantity of lead round balls used for blackpowder rifles or pistols. If you could find one that is anywhere between .460 and .490, you can hammer that through the bore. You will end up with a cylindrical "bullet" complete with full sized rifling.

Using one of your boolits cast for that rifle always leaves you wondering if it was large enough to begin with to fully "fill out" into the rifling grooves, but if that is all you have, go with it. Another alternative is to place one of your cast boolits in a vise, end to end, and squeeze it slightly to enlarge its diameter before slugging.
 
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roberto mervicini

New member
just to let know all the people that help me, I was very busy at work last week 7/7 so I did not slug the barrel, I will have time next week, and post results when done.
Thanks
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roberto
 
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bbqncigars

New member
I used a 50 cal lead ball to slug my 45-70 barrel. I pushed it all the way through the bore to check for tight/loose spots (none).
 
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hk33ka1

New member
A softer or pure lead ball of .460 or a little bigger would be ideal. I would be carefull using a wooden rod. Many people have had them split and jam in the bore. a brass rod would be better.

If I was not able to measure or slug my .45-70 I would start at .459" sized boolits and see how they shot, and if there was any leading.

In pretty much any calibre I would go .001" over the standard jacketed size to begin with if I didn't have a measurement of my barrel. This is how most commercial cast bullets are sized and sold.

.357 gets ,358" etc 45 auto is .451 so it gets .452" etc

When you know your groove diameter, .001 or .002" over that is the standar to start at.
 
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roberto mervicini

New member
Quote:{ I would be carefull using a wooden rod. Many people have had them split and jam in the bore. a brass rod would be better.}

Thanks for the suggestion, that possibility cross my mind... I do not have a brass strong long rod, but i will cap the ends of the hard wood rod with .38 spl. brass, that should prevent split, I will slug it this evening.
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roberto
 
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roberto mervicini

New member
Ok done it! Just finish to slug the barrel, I cap hard wood dowels different lenght 7" 14" and 24" with .38spl. brass to prevent splitting, oiled the bore and the boolit and it went just fine . Once done with a micrometer 0.0000 I measure the bollit on 6 place around the circumference addition all data and divided by 6 to get average of 0.4565 ( four measurement 0.4565 one 0.4568 and one o.4562 ) .
I am fine ??
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roberto
 
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