44 spl super heavyweights

[458winshooter]

I recently read an article about using the 38/200 round and the 38 super police load.Some very well thought of folks including Skeeter Skelton had recommended its use in a snubbie.So I was thinking (perhaps my first mistake) about the Lee 310 gr in a 44 spl Bulldog.I have found very limited info on line.So any thoughts or recommendations on a good starting point?

 

[jaguarxk120]

The 38/200 bullet was very long for the caliber. The British found that a bullet of that type moving a lower velocity would become unstable as soon as it hit something (like a body).

It would tumble and create a larger wound channel.

Chances are a 44 will do the same but you now have a much larger diameter bullet.

 

[SSA]

handloads.org has some 300 gr jsp loads reprinted from Hodgdon #26. The Hodgdon manual used a long test barrel, so velocities from a 3 or 4" revolver will be quite a bit lower.
If you try it , I hope you post chronograph results.

 

[Nick_C_S]

It's my understanding that heavy bullets suffer less energy loss with short barreled guns - relative to their light bullet counterparts. I'm sure there's lots of variables with such a broad statement. But that's what I've heard.

I've been tempted to test this theory myself; but have never gotten around to it. I'd use 38 Spl +P loadings with 178gn and 110gn bullets. It would be interesting to chronograph the rounds with short and long barreled guns; then do the math to see which had the lower percentage kinetic energy loss.

How that translates to so-called "stopping power," I don't know. But at least kinetic energy can be calculated.

 

[steveno]

I have shot a Bulldog with Elmer's 240 grain memorial loads and they were NOT fun. so to shoot a 310 grain bullet is going to be a wasted effort

 

[Ozzieman]

http://www.pennbullets.com/44/44-caliber.html
I have shot these 320’s in a Ruger 77/44 mag but the biggest problem I see in a Bull dog is length. With a proper charge of H110 in the mag the round with a slight compress it wouldn’t fit in the magazine and had to be single shot.
I am with steveno on this. I really like my Bulldog and even with a light load I see no reason to.

 

[g.willikers]

Wouldn't the extra length of this bullet require reducing the amount of powder in the case, lowering the velocity and negating any advantage?

 

[steveno]

seeing that a 300 grain 44 cal bullet was probably intended to be used with a 44 mag case. the 44 special case is about .125 shorter there definitely going to be less capacity. the 44 special used a 240 grain bullet for a long time and it worked quite well so why go to a heavier bullet?

 

[RC20]

It's my understanding that heavy bullets suffer less energy loss with short barreled guns - relative to their light bullet counterparts. I'm sure there's lots of variables with such a broad statement. But that's what I've heard.

That is the Carronade concept, large round shot slower, more better penetration at closer ranges.

It doesn't get a lot closer than SD with a pistol.

 

[HiBC]

Long ago in a Gun Digest I read of the 200 gr 38 spl load for snubbies.The point was the low stability yaw mentioned in previous posts.
Laser Cast makes a 300 grain truncated cone bullet with a fairly short ogive.

I wonder if your seating depth would take you to where the case walls get thicker.

I'll give it that the yaw principle may work.
But,doggone,things have come a long way in bullets and ammunition..For a couple of reasons,I believe I might consider the 165 gr Hornady Critical Defense 44 spl ammo in a SD snubbie.

The Critical Defense ammo seems to be a reliable SD choice in general.

And without sidetracking the thread to a discussion of handloads vs factory loads here,the topic has been THOUROGHLY discussed on TFL.There is a sticky on the subject.Massad Ayoob,court cases,etc,all good stuff to make your own informed decision with.

Have fun exploring your ideas! Good luck.

 

[Slamfire]

So I was thinking (perhaps my first mistake) about the Lee 310 gr in a 44 spl Bulldog.I have found very limited info on line.So any thoughts or recommendations on a good starting point?

I would not try to use heavy weight bullets in the Charter Arms Bulldog. I suggest you talk to Charter Arms or a powder manufacturer. A Charter Arms Bulldog is a very light weight revolver and I am certain many have been blown up by reloaders attempting to copy some Elmer Keith load or now, the super heavy bullet fashion trend.

 

[David R]

 

[black mamba]

The .357 caliber 200 grain bullet has an SD of .224. The .430 caliber bullet with equal SD would be a 290 grain. So any 300 grain .44 bullet should do the same thing. Safe velocity should be around 750 fps with slow burning powders.

 

[Slamfire]

The full story of the above posted picture is in this thread. Seems dear old Dad's reloads were a bit hot.

Need light 44 special load for charter arms bulldog

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...ight-44-special-load-for-charter-arms-bulldog

Charter Arms Bulldog's are not magnums, they are light duty guns meant to be fired with factory pressure ammunition, and I mean, non +P factory.

 

[joed]

The Bulldog was meant to shoot 200 gr bullets. Anything else is not going to produce great results. I owned a Bulldog and remember somewhere in the manual about reading that. Mine was older though.

 

[458winshooter]

44 spl heavy

There seems to be a lot of cofussion on what I am talking about.I am not trying to load hot I know that will lead to disaster, and I would never load any 44 spl load with H-110.The 38/200 in a 38 S&W case and the super police load in a 38 spl case were both low velocity standard pressure loads.The super police was about 770 fps and the 38/200 about 650 to 700 fps.Both were on the edge of being unstable and so would tumble very easily.

 

[HiBC]

Understood.And your plan might very well work as well as the 38-200 load.

No reason why it can't.

What I am suggesting is back in those days,we did not have the bullet technology we do today.
So that slug,planned yaw,etc was suggested an alternative to 110/15 gr 38 spl +P load out of a snubbie.

You might call Hornady to see,but it would not surprise me if the 165 gr Critical Defense load was developed with the Bulldog/Taurus 445/S+W 696,etc in mind.
The Critical Defense Ammo won't be +P unless they say it is.

Its your gun,your ammo,your choice.Do it your way.

For myself,for SD,I'd choose a factory load,and I have come to have faith in the Critical Defense ammo.But that's just another opinion.

 

[.38SPL enthusiast]

I have loaded a lot of 200 grain .38's at about 550 through 650 fps and can say it really does do the trick on varmints. However, one issue which is encountered when you begin loading bullets a great deal heavier than standard is that the POI vs. POA becomes really complicated in fixed sight guns. Super heavy and slow bullets have a rainbow like trajectory. My 200 grains were dead on up close and dead on at 35 yards, but in between was some real guess work and could vary by 7 or so inches.
Another issue which might arise in the .44 is that yawing bullets penetrate less. I have no idea what this would mean in the .44. The .38's still managed quite good penetration.
However, experimenting is fun. If you can find safe load data, try it out.