44 Mag or other big bore pistol….Bear, Deer @ 100yd loads

[Nathan]

In a pistol, I know what is acceptable for performance. In my rifle, I know acceptable performance criteria.

In 44 mag or 45 Colt, I’m a bit confused. Some folks shoot jhp’s. I’m assuming if loads match factory that bullets will be effective. If shooting JSP’s, what velocity do I need at 100 yds to be effective on mule deer? or bears at 50ft/25yds? If SWC, same or different? Do I need 300gr bullets, or are 200’s fine.

 

[Paul B.]

Frankly, I would prefer my big game to be a lot closer. I haven't done any handgun hunts for a very long time and the two deer I did shoot were right around 35 to 40 yards away. Deer #1 was hit in the shoulder with a 240 gr. Remington hollow point. Gun was a New Model Ruger Super Blackhawk. Deer did about a 20 yard sprint and went down hard. Bullet jacket was lodged in the shoulder bone and the lead portion passed out the other side.

Deer # 2 was shot with the same gun a year later and about the same distance and again in the shoulder. The bullet this time was a home cast 250 gr. Keith style semi wadcutter. Bullet passed clean though the shoulder and exited just behind the off side shoulder. Deer dropped on the spot.

During the time period involved, I was shooting the .44 mag literally every day and was serious hell on the local jackrabbit population out to about a bit further than 100 yards, say maybe 125 yards. I just didn't want to try it on bigger game which in my case at the time was deer.
Paul B.

 

[Unclenick]

Bullets are designed to do best in a certain impact velocity range. The longer barrel of a rifle will increase muzzle velocity some, so you want to check with the bullet manufacturer to confirm your bullet is good at the impact velocity you expect. Indeed, I think it is worth running an exterior ballistics program precisely for this purpose at, say, 10-yard intervals and at your coldest and warmest expected firing temperatures. Then, look at the tables to see where along the trajectory the manufacturer's recommended impact velocity range is being adhered to. You can then either hunt targets within that range or start fiddling with velocity to get the range you want, assuming the gun is up to it.

 

[44 AMP]

If shooting JSP’s, what velocity do I need at 100 yds to be effective on mule deer?

I think you should look at the question from the other end. What velocity can you get from what you are using??? Then see if that velocity will be effective.

The answer to the second part will almost certainly be "yes" provided you put the bullet in the right spot.

Handloaded .45 Colt, in a suitable gun, can match .44 Mag performance. Factory loads, loaded to the SAAMI standard for .45 Colt, will not.

My opinion on 300gr bullets is that they are not needed. The .45 Colt has been around since 1873 running a 250gr and the .44 Mag since about 1956 or so, running a 240/250gr slug and those were clearly enough. The 300s didn't even exist until within the last few decades and were made popular by some gun writers, expounding on their tremendous penetration. Today, some people think the need them, but I don't.

Remember, a bullet doesn't have to expand to be effective. It just has to be in the right place. Hardcast slugs work, and work well without expanding any, provided the shooter puts them in the right spot.

SO, look at the gun you are going to be using, and its performance with different loads. Even a 4" .44Mag can take down deer at about any range you can accurately hit them. Keith proved that, more than once.

Keith's "classic" load was his 250gr SWC over 22gr of 2400 powder (and standard primers). Skeeter Skelton preferred a 240 over 21.5gr 2400.

You can match these loads with H110 or W296. AA No.9 is a good choice as well.

40 years ago I ran .44 Mag level loads from my Ruger Blackhawk .45 Colt. I don't do that any more, I have .44Mags for that.

 

[stinkeypete]

About 25 years ago, I was a reasonably competitive bullseye shooter at the State level. Certainly at the club level. I was practicing at 50 yard bullseye targets and hunting big Wisconsin white tail deer.

I bet I have taken more than 15 white tails with a handgun and more than a few with the Savage ML2 muzzle loader... which pushes .452 Hornady XTPs ... lets just say I was over 2,500 fps and leave it at that.

I learned the hard way:
Shooting at the range is good practice but not at all like shooting in the field.
While I was "minute of Deer vitals" at 50 yards at the range, 50 yards was simply too long a shot with a handgun in the field. I cut down plenty of sticks and ... just plain have no explanation as to why my "sure shots" at 50 years resulted in deer running away with no blood trail in the snow. I just missed.

But sticking to the trails in the woods, 25 yards was very successful. I learned how to hunt.

Oh, I had a .454 Casull... plenty of power at 100 yards. But as great a shot as I was.. that's too far for handgun hunting. And it was heavy and talk about recoil!

Then I went to .45 Colt Ruger Only loads. That was a thing before Ruger made a bunch of blackhawks that could not take hotrodding.
Then I went to good stout .45 Colt loads with XTPs. These worked just fine on big white tails. Why had I been punishing myself?

Now I have a Bowen customoized .44 Magnum Blackhawk. I am convinced I could take it hunting for anything from deer to moose to elk. A 240 grain XTP will do the job if the vitals are hit. And that means hunting. Waiting for the close shot.

I also pushed a 240 grain XTP over 2,500 fps. I dug the slug out of the hill behind my deer. The petals were still intact. That's amazing.

If using cast bullets, you need to aim to break bones... shoulders or necks. Lung shots give a bad result. An XTP opens a big hole in a lung shot.

100 yards... just about 70 yards too far to really hit your prey where you need to hit it. JMO.

 

[Nathan]

It sounds like we all have similar issues determining what is enough gun!

This question comes from my youth. When I was about 17ish, I shot a mule deer at 125yds and hit it perfectly at the back lower edge of the shoulder blade. I knew I was good to 100ish because I regularly shot to 100yds with that Ruger 10.5” SBH with a 4x scope. I was shooting some hot 240gr jhp’s. Everything was pretty solid in regards to the setup and the shot.

At the end of the day, I did not like the deer’s reaction. I was probably a bit immature in my hunting experience. The deer ran about 100yds and laid down. When I walked up to it, it took off. ~50 yds later it laid down. I shot it again which killed it….base of the neck. Upon inspecting the wound, it entered, it exited. It hit organs.

I was a handgun hunter at the time….44 mag & 375 JDJ. Never shot that far with the 44 mag again. Shot to 150 or so with the 375. I never had that “arrow” like reaction again.

So, with my 5” 44mag launching 240gr SWC’S at 1200fps, I wonder if I have a 25yd, 50yd, 100yd deer gun. I know I can hit to 100yds with some rest….but how lethal is the shot?

 

[ligonierbill]

We've all heard of Elmer Keith's 600 yd shot to finish a client's wounded deer. From what you wrote, your shot was a touch high but clearly lethal. Track it 150 yd for a finishing shot - sounds good to me. I wouldn't worry about your new 44 at 100, if you are confident in hitting the proverbial pie plate.

A good read is Big-Bore Revolvers by Max Prasac. He is a hardcast bullet guy, but he includes a point/counterpoint, with the jacketed point by Gary Smith. One of the best objective discussions of bullets I've seen.

 

[GeauxTide]

if 100 yards, rifle. if 50 yards, 45 Colt 285gr RCBS SAA over 10gr of Unique for 1057fps.

 

[bamaranger]

two

One aspect of the original question to consider is that mule deer and bear are two different critters. I know little of mule deer except what I read, and that is that the avg weight of one is 200 lbs and the max is just over 300. They are built to run and while boned heavier than a whitetail, their bone structure is not as dense as a bear, even the more common black bear. While bears can run surprisingly fast, that are not a "flight" animal and their bone structure is denser, as is the amount of body fat and muscle hihde and hair the skeleton supports.

The point, different bullets for different animals. I'd shoot a heavy JSP or SWC at bears, even blackies, provided my carbine if slow twisted, would group (and feed) them. A .44 revolver should handle about any slug you choose, including the super heavies, as long as overall length is within spec. On deer, I'd be comfortable with anybody's 240 gr slug, JHP or JSP. I've killed enough whitetails with 180-200 gr JHP's from a carbine to think that the std 240 grs would work fine on their bigger western cousins.

I've not shot a bear, but I've assisted in handling several for weight and age while working seasonally in Shenandoah and Great Smokey's and encountered a goodly number on trail patrol and while fishing in recent years. A big blackie can run 500 pounds plus, though the average is likely
half that. While they are inclined to run upon contact, they are not necessarily a flight species and I'd never trust one up close....teeth and claws ya'know.

I'd want my shots under 100 yds.

The great bears of the west and north are another story entirely, both in size and tempermant and we bat that around here plenty already.

 

[black mamba]

I use 41, 44 and 454 magnums for hunting. I know what ranges I can reliably and repeatedly hit game at with each one. The velocity and energy figures for all of them are good for putting game down fast with good hits. Unless you are hunting with a handgun beyond 100 yards, you don't need to concern yourself with trajectory and energy figures. All of these magnums can be "Point Blank Range" sighted in out to 100 yards. If I'm hunting heavy muscled and boned animals I use hard cast SWC and WFN bullets for greater penetration. For deer and lighter animals I use HP bullets to open faster. For me, getting close to game is the fun part, so I don't worry about all the long range stuff. Factory lead bullet loadings in 44 Special and 45 Colt will kill deer easily at 20 yards. The last three I killed were at 14 yards (tree stand) and 6 yards and 17 yards off the ground. They all died within 20 yards.

 

[MarkCO]

I truly enjoy hunting with a handgun. I've shot Deer, Elk, Pronghorn, Predators and small game from up close to out pretty far. 10mm with an XTP at 80 yards on an Elk, .414 with hard cast at 130 yards on a Deer.

To me, just like rifle, it is the ability, in field conditions, to reliably hit where you are aiming, and for the bullet to have enough energy to kill reliably. Note, I don't say perfect, because that does not happen.

I prefer JHPs because the manufacturers provide velocity ranges where they will work as intended. With hard cast, one is poking a hole, and so the ability to penetrate is less certain, especially if the hit is not perfect. I've punched through shoulders and had the same bullet deflect and wound with about the same shot.

Pick a cartridge and get to practicing. While doing that, research the various bullet designs, what they are good for, intended impact velocity ranges, etc. They vary, even in caliber. For instance, the 180 XTP has a larger window than the 200 XTP in 10mm. Also, with handgun bullets, their poor BC and slower speeds (as compared to rifles) typically will slow faster resulting in a shorter, acceptable max range. I am more limited by effective killing potential than the ability to hit.

FWIW, in most cases, one now has to call the manufacturer to ask about the acceptable impact velocity range. They used to list that, now to not.