.44-40 primer choice
- Thread starter jcj54
- Start date
Jim Watson
New member
I always used pistol primers for .44 WCF because I was going to shoot about half of them in revolvers.
Savvy_Jack
New member
In the early days there was no such thing as rife or pistol primers. They were all numbered.
Now days, large rifle primers are a tad bit longer than large pistol primers. Thus, when used for the 44-40 cartridge, you could run into problems with ignition in the mag tube, or cartridges jamming in revolvers.
Personally I use them in my rifles but only load a few at a time when hunting, or one at a time when target shooting.
Details can be seen here:
https://sites.google.com/view/44win...40/ballistics-handloading/handloading/primers
Now days, large rifle primers are a tad bit longer than large pistol primers. Thus, when used for the 44-40 cartridge, you could run into problems with ignition in the mag tube, or cartridges jamming in revolvers.
Personally I use them in my rifles but only load a few at a time when hunting, or one at a time when target shooting.
Details can be seen here:
https://sites.google.com/view/44win...40/ballistics-handloading/handloading/primers
Large Pistol (standard, not magnum) is the correct primer.
The .44-40 was introduced in Winchester's 1873 rifle and Colt put it into their 1873 revolver shortly afterwards.
Regular large pistol primers are what is listed in the books.
I think if you try large rifle primers you will find them a bit "too tall" to seat flush or below flush in the .44-40 primer pocket and that is an undesirable, and possibly risky situation.
The .44-40 was introduced in Winchester's 1873 rifle and Colt put it into their 1873 revolver shortly afterwards.
Regular large pistol primers are what is listed in the books.
I think if you try large rifle primers you will find them a bit "too tall" to seat flush or below flush in the .44-40 primer pocket and that is an undesirable, and possibly risky situation.
ligonierbill
New member
I've used CCI 300 with Unique, FFg, and Black MZ (black powder sub no longer sold). Never a problem, and I fired a lot of rounds in Cowboy Action.
Dillonhelp
New member
Current production 44-40 primer pockets are manufactured for large pistol primers.
One rarely does. In fact I went through several old Speer manual which didn't list .44-40 at all. Many older manuals, printed between the time it basically went obsolete and its revival due to cowboy action shooting simply don't list it, as it wasn't very popular at the time.
Despite the fact that it first appeared in the Winchester 73, it is classed as, and considered a pistol round these days. Things were different in the distant past, where the same round was a rifle or pistol round, if it came in both.
Today its a pistol class round and rifles chambering it are considered to be pistol caliber carbines, mostly...
Savvy_Jack
New member
It depends on what manual or what website you look at as to where the 38-40 and 44-40 data is located.
Both cartridges are used in both rifle and revolver but yet it depends on what was used for testing as to where it will be located.
If a 7" or so barrel or "receiver" was used, it is typically located under revolver use. If a 20" or so barrel was used for testing, then it is typically located under rifle loads.
Lyman's 49th list the 38-40 only under handguns while the 44-40 is not only listed under handguns, but also rifles for both normal loads and high velocity loads (the later for strong action rifles only).
So short answer, use Large Pistol Primers.
For historical data, if interested, check here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...bcnEM1lv6tCWBJsCOB8vLIDOIg/edit#gid=782758216
If you have a depth micrometer with a 3/16" spindle, you can measure the depth of the primer pockets in your brass. The SAAMI drawings show Large Pistol primer pockets are 0.117" to 0.123" deep, and Large Rifle are 0.125" to 0.132" deep. This may not define all historical instances of the cartridge case construction, but it will tell you what your brass manufacturer's intention was to see used with it.
you should also check to see if you are shooting balloon head cases, or solid head cases.
Its not easy to get the full 40gr black powder charge into a balloon head case, but it can be done. Its not possible with solid head cases, there just isn't enough space.
And the reverse is that the extra space will lower the solid head smokeless powder load's pressure a little, so you might not get exactly all you expect.
Its not a matter of case strength at the pressures used, however, just volume.
Jim Watson
New member
How much balloon head brass do you think is still in use?
Jim Watson
New member
Really? Which calibers? I need to rummage through the reloading supplies to find such a thing.
What do you call "balloon" and "semi-balloon?"
I think you are mixing up the 44 WCF case with some other cartridge. The 44 WCF was never sold with a folded head case and never made that way.
https://sites.google.com/view/44winchester/chasing-the-44-40
Jim Watson
New member
Union Metallic Cartridge Co under "UMC Thomas" developed what they then called the "solid head" case with S H in the head stamp. Look inside and it is what is now called balloon head or semi-balloon head. I am not clear on the distinction between balloon head and semi-balloon head but suspect it to be the misnomer of calling folded head cases "balloon head".
I have wondered if it would be feasible to make a New Folded Head, maybe even inside primed for cheap blasting ammo; at least in low pressure calibers like .38 Special.
I have wondered if it would be feasible to make a New Folded Head, maybe even inside primed for cheap blasting ammo; at least in low pressure calibers like .38 Special.
Hammerhead
New member
it doesn’t take much of a search to find pictures of balloon head 44-40 brass.
The semi-balloon head is also called a solid balloon head (kind of an oxymoron, in my view) and was introduced in modern times in the 308 brass Winchester designed for the 1992 Palma Match, which the U.S. hosted. It's a ploy to get maximum powder space eeked out, and that brass, I am told, weighed about 150 grains, which is light for 308 even by Winchester standards, but I don't think they expected it to have long reloading life. Basically, what they do is push a recessed ring into the web around the primer pocket, so when you look down into the case, you see the part of the web that contains the primer pocket protruding from the floor of the web. Though it started in that specialized 308 brass, they subsequently put it into a number of cases, probably to enjoy the raw materials savings.
