410 Gauge For Home Defense?

[zippyfusenet]

I'm a new shooter, and I don't know much about shotguns. I'm shopping for a shotgun for home defense. I'm taking my time, trying to learn about the subject and avoid costly mistakes.

I'm a fairly big guy (6 foot, 220 pounds). I have shot a 12 gauge and I'm okay with it, but my wife is a small woman with short arms, and shotguns we've handled in stores are too big for her, plus she can't take heavy recoil. Maybe we both can't be comfortable with the same size gun. I think I might be able to find a bantam gun to fit her, and a 20 gauge gun might have less recoil.

The other day in our FLGS, a salesman handed us a bantam 410 shotgun with pistol grips (!) and suggested this was what we were looking for. Um. I don't know much about shotguns, but I thought 410s were pretty small, the shotgun equivalent of a .22. I thought 410s were good for small game and varmints, but too small to deal with two-legged house-breaking varmints.

So, was this salesman jerking me around to get at my wallet, or was he telling me true? Should we trust our lives to a 410 shotgun for home defense?

Or does it make more sense to look for a bantam 20 gauge for my wife? If we find one that fits, will I be able to use it too, or should I look for one more my own size?

I can afford to spend money to overcome problems. I just don't like to.

 

[stercrazy]

l think you found a salesman that saw you as a good prospect for on the spot inventory reduction.

I think you would be far better off to find you and your wife a good youth or Bantam 20 gauge shotgun over a .410. The 2 1/2 inch .410 sells at Wal-Mart for about $6.18 a box and is limited to pretty much 6 or 8 shot. The 20 gauge sells for about $3.27 a box and each shell carries a lot more of those same size bb's than the .410. I personally have a 20 gauge pump for my home defense gun. The youth models or Bantam's usually have a shorter barrel and a shorter stock for kids and these same guns usually do work well for the ladies. The shorter barrel is also easier to handle in the confines of a house and though a pistol grip looks really good on TV or in the Movies. It is also harder to hit with! A regualr stock can be tucked in under the arm against the chest and it a lot easier to control and less felt recoil into the hand, as well as easier to hit something with. I am a big believer of what #6's can do at the short ranges and confines of a home. Don't get slugs you are not big game hunting!

 

[Clone]

410 would probly be ok if your useing slugs. but i would think a 12ga or 20ga with buckshot would be more ideal.

 

[gunslinger555]

well i dont know if 410 is powerful enough but if it is get one for her and get a 12 gauge for your self since you have the money

 

[expeditionx]

With a .410 the bore size is equivalent to a .45 handgun. If .410 is all I had to work with I would choose .410 slugs not buckshot or any shot for that matter.

The bigger the shotgun gauge equals more potential damage to the intended target. A 20 gauge is much better for disabling a badguy. A 12 gauge is even better than the 20 gauge.

12 gauge is the easiest to find ammo for at most retail establishments.

My advice is find a range that allows you to try 12,20, and .410 shotguns.
Try them all out. For home defense, focus on getting the largest gauge that you can effectively handle.

For home defense consider a good pump action like the Remington 870 with a 18.5 inch plain bead barrel. Mossberg is a good second consideration.
Train enough at a range to be competant to use it fast and accurately.
Try a limb saver on the stock it makes any shotgun more comfortable.
http://www.limbsaver.com/limbsaver/firearms/slipon.aspx
If you go with a 12 or 20 gauge shotgun, stick with buckshot ( 00 largest to #4 buck smallest ). Find a good durable weapon light to use on your home defense weapon. Youll appreciate it if you need to use it on a dark night when you hear a window or door getting broken into at 2AM.

 

[Jeff F]

I think if loaded with slugs maybe. If you do go that route loose the pistol grip for a shoulder stock so it can be aimed. IMO I'd get at least a 20ga and load it with (depending ware I lived) #4 buck or 00 buck. Just remember that buckshot needs to be aimed, especially at close range. The .410 bore shoots a slug that is the same diameter as a .41 cal handgun. I don't remember about the .410 buckshot shells but I don't think there’s very many pellets in them. 20 ga much better, 12 ga even more so.

 

[ClarkEMyers]

I'd go 2 guns - for the wife a fitted 20 gauge semi-automatic.

I'd go 2 guns - for the wife a fitted 20 gauge semi-automatic. It doesn't sound as though the shotgun will ever be shot for fun and that means the shotgun likely will never be shot enough for expertise. Although I prefer a pump for dependable field use and operation with a wide variety of ammunition I suggest a gas auto for the casual user - the user is more likely to malfunction than the shotgun hence the automatic. The shotgun at home will be cleaned and oiled and generally well maintained with selected ammunition. I'd say the .410 with slugs is better than a knife and if it appeals to the wife a gun she likes is better than the Platonic ideal she doesn't. Still however useful a snakecharmer might be against snakes it's not the answer for home defence.

Guns that fit the wife will never fit you and this matters a great deal with shotguns. There's something to be said for common ammunition but it won't really matter that much if there is some reason you want a 12 or 16 gauge yourself..

 

[stercrazy]

The problem with using 00 buck or slugs is they have this nasty habit of going through walls and into the next room. There might be kids or other people in there and you don't need them shot up too! Have seen what #6's did to 2 bad guys many years ago. Both were dead upon arriving at the FLOOR!

 

[Texas9000s]

For home defense, I would not go with anything less than a 12 gauge. Mossberg makes a really inexpensive model, the Maverick 88. It can be had for less than $150.00 and you can get it with an 18 1/2 inch barrel which should make it easier for your wife to use.

As far as loads see here http://www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bin/tacticalubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=78;t=000785#000000e

I keep mine with Remington's low recoil law enforcement 00 buck. It is very easy to shoot. I'm 5'8" and 150 and can shoot that round all day without hurting my shoulder a bit.

Just my .02

 

[shecky]

If the wife can't take heavy recoil, .410 may be the best bet. I recall some 000 and OO buckshot loads bold in .410 from cheaperthandirt.com. I think they had three to five pellets. In comparison, "light" 12ga buckshot loads usually have something like 9 00 pellets. The difference is usually the number of pellets, not necessarily penetration, velocity, etc.

There are low recoil "light" loads for 12 ga, but it's relative. ALL 12ga loads have substantial kick. Someone who is sensitive to such things may be bes suited to avoiding 12 ga altogether. Even 20ga can kick quite a bit.

Perhaps something along the lines of a pistol caliber carbine would do, too. The Marlin 1894 in .357 is nice and compact. Some good .38Sp HP loads would be great manstoppers from that long barrel, and have recoil like a .22. Or something like the Hi Point carbine in 9mm is reputed to be very reliable, and there are plenty of great 9mm self defense loads out there. Wor has it that they're coming out with a .45ACP carbine, which would be even better for self defense.

 

[wcandres]

Winchester sells .410s with 3 pellets of 000 Buckshot. Thats the equivalent of 3 38 caliber projectiles. At short range who could stand up to that? They shouldn't have enough energy to penetrate a plaster wall, if the safety factor is to be considered, and the recoil is nominal in my Winchester 9410.

 

[lizziedog1]

Shecky
You get an A+ in shotgunning 101. You are right, any shotgun, regardless of gauge, throws projectiles at similar velocities. A friend of mine reloads for all the gauges. He has shown me his reloading guides. They have the exact same velocities listed for all the gauges. The difference is the amount of payload that is launched.

 

[BigFunWMU]

Um... Buckshot goes through walls. Period....

Doesn't matter what gauge shotgun for velocity, all gauge will do is change recoil and number of pellets.

Here is another way to look at it. I am easily capable of putting my hand through a plaster wall; it's really not that hard. Most of you reading this can too, bad idea, watch out for studs, but very possible. Now I cannot strike someone hard enough to shatter bones and break skin. If you think you round that won't penetrate a wall has a remote chance of stopping an attacker, you are sadly mistaken.

Even birdshot will go through walls.

We have done tests with various birdshot loads. Birdshot penetrated through two pieces of drywall (representing one wall) and was stopped in the paper on the front of the second wall. The problem with birdshot is that it does not penetrate enough to be effective as a defense round. Birdshot is designed to bring down little birds.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

Bottom line: a .410 with buckshot or a slug will be effective. Don't use birdshot. Anything that will stop a human will go through drywall.

Get a gun she is comfortable with, a gas operated auto (Remington 1100 or 11-87) would work well. Very reliable, very simple to use, very gentle.

Good Luck

(sorry about the drywall rant, seen too much of the false belief of drywall as some sort of magic bullet stopper on here lately)

 

[Mikeyboy]

Check www.theboxotruth.com regarding wall penetration. I think a .410 is sort of OK for home protection. I rather have a least a 20 gauge, but if your wife can't handle a 20 gauge then get a 410 or a pistol carbine. My problem is like other have said 410 is limited and somewhat expensive ammo. You have more selection with 12 and 20 gauges. A 20 gauge you can hunt anything from whitetail deer (never tried it, but on paper it can be done) to bird and small game and it will throw more pellet than a 410 with less recoil than a 12. You can kill a BG with a 410 but I think you would have to use a slug or buckshot. I don't think your going to get the big, shallow wounds from birdshot like you would from a 12 or 20 gauge

 

[Ohio Annie]

I have a .410 with 3 inch number 4 shot shells for HD. Should work fine, according to my own ballistics testing using green hard pumpkins at 15 feet.

 

[Death from Afar]

I think a .410 would be a mistake- and I admit it is a darn sight better than throwing rocks- and in most confrontations you dont need to fire a round- but- with a .410 you have to use buck with a low pellet count, or slugs. IN both cases you are loosing the big advantage of a defensive shotgun- high hit probabilty. A hit with either will incapacitate a bad guy, but you have to hit him first. I think a 20 bore is a far far better choice. Even better, try some of the reduced recoil 12 bore buckshot loads, or if you really have to, use wussy loads of bird shot. I dont think you will find that a 12 bore trap load is heavy on the shoulder at all, if fired from a properly fitted gun. My wife fires 12 bore trap loads and nver complains at all. IN fact, she also fires 40mm grenades as well, but thats a story for another day....

 

[oletymer]

The 3 inch winchester buckshot load is 5 000 pellets. At home defense distances the intruder will not miss the extra pellets from larger gauges as he hits the floor. Getting something your wife is comfortable with is a good idea.

 

[zippyfusenet]

Thanks to all who posted. That's a lot of experience and wisdom to digest. Might be a fun project for my gal and me to design her a personal custom shotter. And I'll keep looking for a 12-gauge for myself.

 

[the_oklahombre]

Probably better than nothing, but I'd want a 12 ga myself.

 

[BobMcG]

My HD shotgun is a 12ga. My other half isn't into recoil at all but has learned to shoot it quite well from just above the hip where it doesn't bother her and doesn't hurt her. She practices this way and we are both comfortable with this method for her. She'll hit what she needs to. After all, we're talking close and very close ranges inside.