.410 cal Enfield Shotgun

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Redlg155

New member
Fellow Shooters,

While visiting a local gunstore I came across several Enfields chambered for .410 shotgun shell. I believe he wanted $150 for them. The idea intreagued me because most likely you could shoot .410 and .45 colt out of the weapon. Either way, I think it would be a neat novelty item, but I'm hesitant on spending any money until I know more about the weapon.

Are there any TFL'ers with first hand experience with this weapon?

Good Shooting
RED
 
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PreserveFreedom

Guest
I have heard that you should NOT shoot 45LC from a 410 shotgun. Although some are made for this, a standard 410 shotgun has a bore smaller than that of a 45LC. The outer diameter of the two cartridges is the same, but not the bullet/slug. Again, this is what I have heard. If I am wrong, please correct me.
 
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Bud Helms

Senior Member
That's correct. The bore in a .410 is .410. The bullet diameter of a .45 Colt bullet is .451/.452. Beeeeeg trouble!
 
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444

New member
I could be wrong, but I read something about this in the American Rifleman not long ago. I believe it said that these Enfields are not designed to shoot standard .410 shotshells, but a brass shotshell made for that particular firearm. I will see if I can locate the article. I think the magaizne is still on the flush box of my toilet.
 
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Bud Helms

Senior Member
I'm no expert on Brit chamberings but I believe most Brit .410 chambers are for a 2 inch shell. I seem to recall some of the Enfields having the chamber relieved forward for 2 1/2 inch shells. I could be wrong ... someone?
 
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Redlg155

New member
Hmmmm..good thing I checked here first!

Based on the replies I think I'll pass on the weapon. He also had a nice "tanker" model in the standard .303 that would make an interesting project.

Good SHooting
RED
 
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444

New member
I finally found it. It is in the American Rifleman reprint book entitled British Enfield Rifles.
Lee Enfield .410 Shotgun
I have purchased a gun advertised as an Enfield .410 shotgun made for use by the British officers in India. I find that it will not chamber a .410 shell. Can you tell me what the caliber is ?
Enfield .410-bore shotguns, or more properly ".410 Muskets", were converted from World War I vintage SMLE rifles that had been otherwise downgraded from normal service categories. The work was done at the Indian Rifle Factory at Ishapore from the 1920s until at least the start of WWII. The conversion consisted of smooth-boring the rifles' barrels to .410-.412" diameter and filling the magazine well with a wooden plug, pinned in place and capped with a thin steel pressing to serve as a loading platform.
SMLE .410 Muskets were intended for use by police or by military guards in urban areas where firing a regular .303-in. Ball cartridge might cause injury to innocent bystanders.
Cartridges for the .410 Musket were made from .303 British Cartridges, left un-necked, which accounts for the similarity in rim and case body dimensions between .410-bore shotshells and the correct cartridges. An unnecked .303 British cartridge is, however, approximately 0.3" shorter than even the shortest .410 shotshell, which accounts for the failure of factory .410 shotshells to chamber.
 
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444

New member
I also just ordered an Enfield Tanker carbine in .303 from Navy Arms. I was intrigued by the Gibbs Rifle Company versions, but they are in .308. I wasn't aware that Navy Arms had this stuff out until today. I handled a tanker at a gun dealer last month and really wanted it, but it too was in .308. So hopefully this will be everything I anticipate.
 
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Redlg155

New member
444,

Thanks for the info! I definitely don't want to go through the trouble to cutting .303 cases and working up a load just to have something to shoot birds with.


I'm going to look at that tanker model again this weekend. It is the same length as the jungle carbine except that it has a full length wood forend and no cone type flash supressor. I hear the Jungle carbines can be a monster to fire. The extra weight of the tanker should be a bonus.

Sometimes I hate going to that guys shop because he orders a lot of military surplus, so I'm always wanting a new toy. He wants $200 for the Navy Arms Enfield Tanker and about $170 I believe for the jungle. I think he's getting some IDF M98 Mausers chambered in .308 this weekend, so If I can find a nice one it is definitely going home with me!

Good Shooting
RED
 
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Mk VII

New member
many Lee-Enfields in England were altered to .410 shotgun in the 1970s at a time when it was easier to own them like that. Most were for the 2 1/2" cartridge although occasionally you met some 2" ones. Most dealers wouldn't do 3" ones as they reckoned the conversion didn't leave enough metal in the chamber area. Eventually the law was changed to remove the legal advantages of this practise. :mad:
Many .410 guard guns were altered to 3" when imported into the U.S.
 
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