.41 Long Colt anyone?

ligonierbill

New member
If I can find brass (backordered), I will have all the components. Anyone on here who can share their experience with this round? I have read several sources that indicate blackpowder works best. I have a lot of experience with flintlocks and am gaining it rapidly for cap-and-ball, but never loaded BP cartridges. Ordered a brass drop tube, and I know to measure by volume and ensure it's compressed, so no safety issues. If you shoot this round, what works best for you?
 

Sam06

New member
I thought about it

I thought about getting started on the 41 Colt because there are so many guns out there for a great price in this caliber. I never got one so I did not get into it.

Here is a really good article on loading the 41 Long Colt and some tricks of the trade so to speak. Its not for the dilettante and I would not recommend it for you 1st project in reloading but it can be done now a lot easier than a few years ago.



http://harryo.sixshootercommunity.org/
 

tangolima

New member
I asked the same question a while back. Some mentioned ways to convert from 30-30 casings. Search and you will find the thread. It can be done, but a hassle nonetheless.

Bullets are uncommon as well.

-TL
 

ligonierbill

New member
I guess that's why the guns are available, few want to try it. This will be my 24th caliber, and I need another like a 40 caliber hole in the head, but it looks interesting and has some history to it. Starline make a seasonal run of brass, so I may just have to wait for their next issue.
 

Sam06

New member
I have been reloading for almost 40 years and have a few oddball gun/cartridges I load for, like 40-82 Win. I must say it is getting easier to find components now than back in the 70's and 80's.

I have seen the starline "seasonal" run brass one time in the last 5 years available. I admit I am not looking all the time. I think I would go the 38 spl route for making brass. Just run it through the 41 LC die and throw the split cases away. 38 Spl is easy to get.

I cast bullets but I have never case for a heel type bullet. I don't expect its much different and the molds are out there, but again hard to find.

I don't think I would mess with converting 30WCF brass, too much turning and work.

Again good luck.
 

ligonierbill

New member
According to Elmer Keith, that model Colt was known as "the gunsmith's friend" in the day. Nevertheless, they were popular. William Bonney carried a pair. Mine is an Army Special, circa 1920. I have tons of .38 Special cases, so I may try to form some. Thanks for the hint. I have bullets on order. Not the heeled variety, but the undersized hollow base type that are supposed to expand like a minie ball. Until the .357 Mag came along, the .41 was the biggest thump you could get from that series of Colt revolvers.
 

40-82

New member
Just going from memory here, but if I recall correctly there were two versions of the 41 Colt. The earlier version which was used in the Thunderer and the Single Action had an undersized bullet that expanded with soft lead when it hit the barrel. Later, in some of the Colt double actions a normal diameter bullet was used with the same case that could be loaded with ordinary 40 caliber bullets. A few years ago I picked up a later double action Colt in 41 that I was itching to try until I realized that the gun was probably unfired, and I decided to leave it in that condition. I think loading for the old 41 would be an interesting project, and if I ever found the right used single action at the right price I would try it. Again, if my memory serves me, the 41 was the fifth most popular caliber in the single action Colt, which suggests that in its day somebody must have thought highly of it. I have heard that some of the old 41's have been put back in service by substituting a 38 WCF barrel. I believe Dave Scovill's book on shooting the old single actions calibers mentions this. Again, I want to emphasize that I am working from memory and please don't take anything I say on this subject without verifying from a published source.
 

tangolima

New member
I have been reloading for almost 40 years and have a few oddball gun/cartridges I load for, like 40-82 Win. I must say it is getting easier to find components now than back in the 70's and 80's.

I have seen the starline "seasonal" run brass one time in the last 5 years available. I admit I am not looking all the time. I think I would go the 38 spl route for making brass. Just run it through the 41 LC die and throw the split cases away. 38 Spl is easy to get.

I cast bullets but I have never case for a heel type bullet. I don't expect its much different and the molds are out there, but again hard to find.

I don't think I would mess with converting 30WCF brass, too much turning and work.

Again good luck.
So just fire form 38 spl in the revolver? That is easy. I'm going to try that when I have the chance.

FFL I frequent has a 41 LC revolver in his safe for more than a year. His client bought from out of state but has never come pick it up. It is considered abandoned. He is considering letting me have it if I pay for his expenses, something like $50. I didn't do it partly because of the difficulty getting components for hand loading. Now I am interested.

-TL
 

Sam06

New member
So just fire form 38 spl in the revolver? That is easy. I'm going to try that when I have the chance.

Here is how(I did not write this):

1. Start with .38 Special brass or shorten .357 Magnum brass. I used a Lee .38 Special trimmer in a power drill to speed it up (the difference between the length of the 41LC and .38 Special cases is only .030" and after expanding it is virtually zero).

2. Anneal the brass. I did this by inserting a long 5/16" steel rod in the mouth of the case, holding the case upside down, and rotating it in a propane torch flame starting from the center of the case and working toward the case mouth. When there was a noticeable change in color (brownish starting to turn dull cherry red -- bright cherry red or orange is too much), I dropped it in a bucket of water to stop the heat from migrating completely through the base (head) of the cartridge. Even if the head softens, this is not particularly dangerous at 41LC pressures. The primer pocket will expand on firing and make the case useless in one or two reloadings. After annealing, parts of the case will be discolored (brownish). This has no effect on
it and will lessen with each cleaning.

3. I put a .38 Special case holder in my press and screwed in a Redding 41LC neck expanding die (my wife bought me a Redding set for Christmas). The Ideal 310 nutcracker will work, but it is MUCH easier

4. Put the annealed case in the case holder and raise it into the neck expanding die. Do it gently and it will expand straight and even from 0.357" ID to 0.386" ID in the front 1/2" of case. Remove it from the die.

5. Roll the case on a flat surface. If it did not expand evenly all around, you will see it "wiggle" as it rolls. If it wiggles, throw it
out. The primer will not line up with the firing pin if it did not expand straight. There are VERY few crooked cases with the Redding die, but the Ideal nutcracker turns out more mistakes. It is because the hole for the 41LC case in the handle is larger than the .38 Special case and the case "tilts" easily. This is not a defect of the Ideal 310. It loads 41LC cases perfectly. That is what it was designed for. It was not designed for expanding .38 Special cases.

6. Prime the cases as usual. Use a .38 Special shellholder.

7. Add powder. I use 3.3gr of Bullseye in my 1892 Colt.

8. Seat a bullet. I use 185gr Rapine HB-RNL bullets which are available from several sources. You cannot seat it as deeply as normal. The neck expander is not long (deep) enough, so the expanded part of the case is too short. There are three lube grooves in the Rapine bullets. You can seat it so that two lube grooves are inside the case and one is outside the case. I just screw out the bullet seating bolt a little, but leave the crimp setting in place.

9. They look strange when you are done loading them. There is a larger diameter bullet and case in the front and a smaller diameter case behind that. Don't worry. You can load them in the cylinder without spacers in the rear or pointing the gun upward or anything else unusual. Just load them into the gun like you would any normal 41LC case and shoot them. If they are straight, they will fire, and they seem to be about as accurate as "real" 41LC cartridges even in the "pre-fireformed" stage.

10. What you have now is an expanded (fireformed) .38 Special case that looks just like a real 41LC case in the front 3/4 of the case. It gently necks down to a standard .38 Special rim in the rear 1/4. It is sort of like a large extractor groove for a rimless case. The 41LC is not really rimless, but it does have a VERY small rim. There is no longer any hint of where the neck expanding stopped and the fireforming started.

11. Reload them as normal 41LC cases from now on. Use a .38 Special shellholder. BTW, in spite of what the reloading companies say, a .38 Special shellholder will not accept a REAL 41LC case. You have to use a motodremel tool to open up the inside slightly (you don't need to do this for the formed cases). Don't overdo it. The 41LC rim is very small.

12. I have not had any cases fail during firing using this method. However, if you wish to do the same, you do it at your own risk (just like handloading is done at your own risk). At this writing, I have reloaded the first ones I fireformed ten or more times. Like any case, it will eventually crack at the neck from repeatedly forming, neck expanding, and crimping. However, it looks like they will last a long time at 41LC pressures. I have not had any let go (split) near the base.
 
Early .41 Long Colt (and Short Colt) used a heeled bullet.

In the 1890s the design was changed to use a case diameter bullet (.38 cal. range) with a hollow base and a thin skirt. On firing, the skirt would (hopefully) blow into the rifling and give passably decent accuracy.

Neither iteration of the cartridge had a reputation for particularly good accuracy, but it did have a good reputation as a defensive cartridge. Elmer Keith was particularly fond of it, and considered it to be superior to the .38 Special in that application.

I always thought that a modernized verision of the .41 in a Colt Detective Special or a Smith K frame would be a very fun gun to have.
 
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