.401 Powermag for Hogs?

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yorec

New member
This might fit better under the reloading forum, but we'll try here first - It looks like I'm going on a hog hunt in April or so. I borrowed a handgun from my father for the event, but I'm having trouble coming to terms with the bullets available for reloading for it. I realize that hogs are mini armored tanks and need heavy artillery to take, thus my questions...

The handgun is a Herters .401 Powermag which will produce similar velocities to a .41 mag using .401 caliber bullets. My problem comes in worrying about case separation with modern bullets at velocities substantially higher than what the 10mm was designed to provide. At what speed does this become an issue with modern hunting bullets?

Of course I also would like to use the heaviest bullets available, but haven't seen anything out there in a HP heavier than 180 grs yet. Do they come heavier? (The cast bullets we usually use for this gun are 165 and 200grs, but we're about out of the 200 gr - have 9 left :( )

Anyone else out there have a Herter's .401 Powermag? (Its similar to a Ruger Blackhawk, but production wes stopped back in the 70s or so. Nice. My dad may not get his back!
 
M

Mike Irwin

Staff
Case separations?

Or do you mean jacket/core separation in the bullet?

Case separation is usually a function of excessive headspace in the gun.

Jacket/core separation is a function of a lot of other things, including velocity.

Quite franky, I don't think you're going to be able to drive a 200-gr. soft-point fast enough to really get a jacket/core separation in .401. I think you'll get to pressures that kill the gun before you get to velocities that kill the bullet.
 
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C.R.Sam

New member
You should be in good shape for shootin pigs with your gun usin anything in the 180-200 gr catagory.

If you shoot well, any gun will do. If you shoot lousy, 45/70 won't stop em quick.

Sam
 
Y

yorec

New member
Thanks guys, - I did mean jacket separation, sorry about that!

I hope you're right about them not separating becasue I found some good looking bullets in the 200 gr range. (Hornady and Raineer) I'm going to find out how fast I can push them as soon as they get here!

I also realize that shot placement is the key to hogs, the .401 should work very well with any bullet selection if I get a good clean shot. I'm just all too aware that things can change rather quickly leaving me wondering if my shot got through that gristle plate armour - it only takes a step or swing of the head at the wrong instant!

But it's going to be fun!

So, anyone else out there have a .401 Powermag?
 
Y

yorec

New member
Thanks Weshoot2.

I did wonder about the raineer bullets - just too good of a price. Maybe I'll buy some for practice and hunt mainly with the Hornady FPs...
 
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Clemson

New member
I seem to remember that the Herter's Powermag was made by Sauer. I suspect that you had better hang onto the brass, as I would think that it will be difficult to find once your supply is gone.
 
G

Grampa

New member
Herter's 401 Powermag

Nope, don't own one, but my Dad does. :)

The Rainier's will make excellent target and plinking rounds, but are not good for hunting. I'd be very curious to find some reloading data for jacketed rounds. I've loaded up a bunch of wadcutters for it but that's all, so can't help you there.

Yeah, the brass is precious. I only have a couple hundred rounds of brass, so I'm very careful with it. The brass comes in boxes that, if I recall correctly, say, "Made in Sweden" on them.

It is a hefty revolver -- looks strong as a Super Blackhawk. If someone comes up with some more history on it, please post!

You should have fun.
 
Y

yorec

New member
I'm going to avoid hollowpoints as I've seen them fill with boar gristle and flesh and fail to expand - not always, but it happens. I would rather start with a solid round and work from there, think it will make for more consistancy when working up a load. (I can count on nearer the same amount of penetration on matter where I hit the pig) Even though the end expansion won't be as explosive with a FP, all the energy should still be spent as the round will probably still stop inside a good sized hog. Adding what the plate of gristle and heavy shoulderbone means to the equation and you'll see why I'll want as much penetration as I can get. A box of Hornady 200 gr fp is on the way...

As to the Herter's origin. They were more of an importer than the actual manufacturer. They contracted weapons (.22s the .401, and a couple models of shotguns IIRC, but I don't know the whole list) and shipped them to the US for sale. The barrel on my revolver is marked:

"Herter's Waseca Minn USA"
"Made in Western Germany"

The other side:

"Herter's"
".401 Calibre"

Nowhere does it specify who the actual manufacturer was - Saur, eh? Now you've got my curiosity peaked...

As to brass - Yep. It's hard to come by. I've got 600 rounds of it, but being a single action revolver I don't loose much. We did a little experimentation and found that cut off .38-40 brass will work in a pinch, but the rim is not quite as thick and could certainly cause problems with heavy loads. I think when my current supply starts getting worn, I'll hire someone to make a limited run custom supply - expensive, but worth it. The old gun is just plain too :cool: to allow to rest.
 
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C.R.Sam

New member
The .401 Powermag was developed by Herters. It predated the .41 Magnum by three years and there is some speculation that it was the inspiration for the .41 Mag.

I have a couple pages of data and hype on the Powermag but nothing said about the contracter/maker. In 1970 it sold for $59.95 retail, ammo $3.78/50 in all loadings.

Typical Herters gig......a LOT of product for little money.

Herter had excellent rifles, shotguns and handguns commissioned by assorted major houses all over the world.

Can't prove it but I ( like Clemson ) also think the Powermag was made by J.P.Sauer.

Sam
 
S

Salt

Moderator
Interesting history, lets hope there will be a supplier for the brass. Perhaps Herters may be able to direct you to a source? The last time I looked at their catalog it was all just waterfowling stuff for sale.

On the bullets, why not order a bullet mold for casting SWC bullets? A hard cast SWC bullet ought to penetrate well and there should be some expansion.

Perhaps a hard cast roundnose bullet shot through the shoulders would be best for planting the boar.
 
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C.R.Sam

New member
Current Herter's only has shotgun ammo. Be interesting to see what if any connection there is to the old Herter's.

Ruhr-American Corporation picked up the pieces when Herter's went down in 69 or68.

I think Herter's (old) had most of their brass made by Norma. Maby the drawing dies are still available for special runs.

George Herter...RIP

Sam
 
Y

yorec

New member
The new and old Herter's companies have very little to do with each other. If I understand it correctly, the old company went belly up in the seventies and Herter's basically didn't exist for a coupld decades. I called and asked when I saw the new Herter's catalog a couple years ago - that's what the lady I talked to told me. Then in the nineties this new company came along, intending to get into sporting goods big time and recognized that a lot of people still recognized the name Herter's and bought the rights to use it and thier symbol. (the shield with the sea horse and etc.)

The original company did about everything, they were the Cabela's of thirty years ago. Great products, good people, and affordable prices. Makes me wonder how they ever went out of business....
 
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C.R.Sam

New member
George Herter seemed to care. He was actually interested in huntin, fishin, adventurin, packin, safaris, shootin, gunsmithin etc etc. He wrote some of the hokiest descriptions ever, yet his products worked.

To prove a point.....he nailed a leopard with one of his .401s. One shot at very close range, just above the eye line.

When he died, it seems that the kids were more interested in taking over the rest of the market than insuring that their customers were pleased and remained loyal.

They chased the bottom line, and the bottom fell out.

Sad.
 
Y

yorec

New member
Dang kids! :(

Just think what they could have been now if they had continued in George's footprints...
 
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C.R.Sam

New member
The bottom line of most businesses benefits from the expertise of a bean counter or two.

But a collumn in the books is missing......soul.

When the bean counters take over the business and run it without soul, gonna be a rough road.

Rare that the love for something like that to pass down.

Sam
 
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RugerNo3

New member
In reality the GCA'68 did Herter's in. Their business was built on mailorder and you couldn't buy components or any ammo or similar items after it was enacted. It has been modified to make it easier now. Their firearms all went mailorder, etc. You had to show proof of identity to buy all ammo in stores originally. You can swage 41Mag brass down to make acceptable 401 brass. It has been done. Made by Sauer, it'll do anything a Ruger SA will do.
 
Y

yorec

New member
I Don't think the GCA of 68 did them in whole, but it sure must've had a big effect at a tough time - maybe even the final nail in the coffin. I don't think the firearms poriton of the company was even a majority of thier business - they sold everything from camp stoves to trapping supplies, boats to fishing tackle. (But then what I remember was mooning over just a few of my dad's last catalogs while growing up.) So I'd think they were probably diverse enough to recover from that unconstitutional act and it was something else which finnally put them down for good...

I wondered about the .41 brass - I even compared a loaded round with one of the .401 yesterday. It was so close I got worried about accidently chambering the wrong stuff and tried it in the cylinder to see. It doesn't fit, thankfully, but it's pretty close. I can sure see that swaging down the brass may work - any idea where to get a die for it? Would a carbide 10mm die, sizer with the decapping assembly, work in a heavy duty press?

(See I just knew we'd end up in the realm of reloading!)
 
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