.40 S&w

TeeItUpCMB04

New member
Through my research I have noticed a lot of negative opinions about the .40 SW round (for self defense or for any other pupose). I am asking what you all think about this caliber.

What are the pros and cons?

just curiousity....
 

DWARREN123

New member
It is the only caliber I use now days. I have owned many different handguns and finally settled on 2, GLOCKs in 40 S&W, 23 and 27.
I find it a good round for accuracy and recoil is not bad. I do reload my ammo and have made it to work well in my handguns.
 

TheNatureBoy

New member
Probably comes down to personal preference TeeItUp. I own a S & W 4013 Tactical and I am very pleased with the way it performs. Its early in the morn so I won't get into numbers (yawn). Besides the fact that it performs well the ammo can be purchased at any Mart or mom and pop store. I certainly wouldn't want to be on the business end of a short 10.
 

wnycollector

New member
I am a new convert to the .40 S&W. I got a GREAT deal on a keltec sub2k rifle last year. I really wanted the 9mm but...the deal was to good to pass up. I just picked up a CZ40B to go along with the keltec. The recoil of the .40 seems to be a little over rated, but then again, I regularly (weekly) shoot my snubbie .357;)

The added benefit for me and the .40 is that my local PD department uses my gun clubs range wednesday am's. They NEVER pickup their brass...so I try to go shooting wed afternoons:D I can shoot my .40 for ~$7/50!
 

pogo2

New member
Favorable on .40

I have also noticed a somewhat emotional bias on gun chat websites against the .40 S&W caliber. I think it results from the natural human tendency to resist change. The older handgun calibers like .45 ACP or 9mm have been around for 100 years, and many shooters are comfortable with them. Now this new invention called .40 S&W appears and many will instinctively oppose it, saying they are content with the older calibers.

Personally I like to see change and innovation, feeling that progress results from experimentation. I have 3 guns chambered in .40 S&W, amounting to about 10% of my armory. They are a Sig, a Glock and an H&K USP, and I have fired them quite a bit over 10 years or so. I enjoy shooting the .40, finding it to be accurate and a reliable feeder in my guns. It gives you a more profound recoil than 9mm, and probably makes a wider, deeper hole in your adversary in a defensive shooting situation. The practice ammo costs more than 9mm, but is a little less than .45.

I guess I'm just a handgun fan, and haven't met a caliber I didn't like.
 

WESHOOT2

New member
all the rest is just opinion

The cartridge is fine.

Its recoil impulse is IMO its only technical difficulty.



(I can say that because I have matching 1911 and EAA Witness platforms in 9x19, 40 S&W, and 45 ACP. Blind-testing reveals the "issue").
 

spamanon

New member
I like mine.
The only negative comments I have seen go along the lines of: "There is just no need for it, the 9mm and .45 ACP do all you need," or "This cartridge was developed only to make money." Neither of these complaints address the issue as to whether or not the round is a good one for it's intended purpose. As the .40 seems to be immensely popular with law enforcement nowadays, I would say it is.
 

10-96

New member
You can do a lot of your own research digging on post shooting reviews and tests conducted by FBI, DOJ, Military, and quite a few civilian LE agencies. It does appear that a trend is showing up that some makes, brands, and/or flavors of the .40 are not performing as well as they should. Nobody argues that the "One Shot Kill" is a over used misnomer that boders on myth status. But the endeavor that LE agencies stive for is to "Shoot to stop the threat and shoot until the threat stops". So, that being said- and from the results of my own research- the only .40 S&W ammo I would carry for SD or duty would be the Speer Gold Dot or the Remington Golden Saber in 165gr weight.
 

Boris Bush

Moderator
165s can be bad! Make sure if you get a 165 it is a full power load. Some companies tried to fix the recoil "problem" by loading a lighter bullet at slower velocity to get it to feel like a 9mm. That they did but made a performer that rivals a 22lr in performance.

A local LE force switched to the end all 40 and the ligth loads, a WEEK later they got into a good fire fight. The bad guy was shot 19 times, not shot at, SHOT 19 times with the lite 165 40 load and walked out of the hospital about a week later.

I am pretty sure the Golden Saber is a full power load in 165, not sure on the Gold dot load............
 

The Tourist

Moderator
I can only tell you what I think I might do.

I have way too much money tied up in 1970's IPSC style .45 ACPs. And let's be honest, I'm never going to compete, and mostly, I'm a plinker.

I do have some very nice SIG and H&K autos which could be used as nightstand pistols and for weekend beer cans.

If Wisconsin ever passes a CCW licensing program, I have several .380 ACPs that I would choose over a full size 1911.

I have/am toying with the idea of selling off all of the .45 stuff--guns, ammo, casting blocks, brass--and going 24/7 with the 40 SW. I will be protected just fine.
 

WESHOOT2

New member
it would be "97% stopping ratio"

The US Border Patrol's 155g Remington JHP has displayed actual one-shot performance on par with fairy tales; it really seems to work.
 

bushidomosquito

New member
I like it just fine. It filled a nice niche when it was first introduced but that niche is fading with the introduction of new high cap .45s like the XD 45, G21SF and H&K 45 that can squeeze as many .45 ACP rounds as possible into 9mm and .40 sized frames. 13-15 rounds of .45 in a comfortable sized auto is enough to deal with almost any situation and the same goes for 14 rounds of .40 in a compact sized carry arm like the G23.

The .40 split the difference between the 9mm and .45ACP while the 10mm was right on par with the .45. I only shoot .40 and am so happy that I had the current variety of auto calibers to choose from. What I would really like to see now is for someone to split the difference between .40 and .45 both in caliber and o.a.l., maybe a .425 G.A.P. or something that could knock the .45 off it's big bore high horse by outperforming it in every aspect and really liven up the caliber wars conversations for a change.
 

Erik

New member
"I am asking what you all think about this caliber."

It is one of the better options currently available.

1870s - Catridges looking a lot like the .40 and 10mm began to be worked on. The .38/40, as an example, pushed a 180 grain bullet at approx 950 feet per second. Not bad for black powder.

1960s - Folks started looking for what they considered "the ideal" revolver cartridge, a .40 cartridge which could push 200 grain bullets between 900 and 1000 feet per second. Folks like Jordan, Keith, and Skelton, mind you. (They didn't get it, instead getting the more powerful .41 Magnum; a great cartridge relegated mostly to field use having been deemed too powerful by most for every day carry and defensive use.)

1970s - Col. Jeff Cooper, Mr. .45acp, called for "the ideal" semi automatic cartridge, one delivering a .40 caliber 200 grain bullet at 1000 feet per second. The 10mm began to take hold. (He didn't get it, instead getting a more powerful 10mm; a great cartridge... deja vu... deemed too powerful by most for every day carry and defensive use.)

The 10mm began to be loaded in two varieties; the magnum variety which has proven popular with 10mm advocates, and the variety often referred to as the "down loaded" and "lite" 10mm. (The weaker cartridges look an awful lot like what the greats had called for, but what did they know?)

1980s - the FBI adopted the 10mm in the form of a 180 grain JHP at approx 950 feet per second. There never was a stronger one or a weaker one. That was it, and the agents apparently liked it.

Meanwhile, folks began experimenting with cartridges duplicating the 10mm. And someone asked, can we produce a 9mm sized semi-automatic with a 10mm performance? Yes, was the answer, so long as you are talking about the "lite" loads, the self defense loads, the loads closely mirroring what the greats had called for. The .40 S&W, bout a 0.140 inch shorter than the 10mm Auto but otherwise nearly identical, was introduced in 1989 with a 180 grain loaded to identical specs as the FBI spec'd 10mm.

The .40S&W currently dominates the US law enforcement market, having captured between approx 70-75% of the market.

It is very popular with the self defense and gaming crowds, too.

Why?

LEO wise: Many law enforcement agencies took note of the FBI's delaration that a 10mm 180 grain JHP at approx 950 was "best" for LEO/SD purposes. And some of those folks were gunnies who rememered what hte greats had called for.... They also took note to the .40 S&W pistols duplicating that is 9mm sized pistols, with nearly splitting the differnce in capacity between the 9mm and the .45acp. The combo of of good performance, with smaller pistols, and increased capacity was all that it took.

Gamer wise: 180 grain bullets at 1000 feet per second make major. Making major while affording more capacity? That's all that it took.

Non-LEO/SD wise: These folks, many of them at least, pay a lot of attention to the afore mentioned folks; greats, LEOs, and gamers. They began to see more and more pistols chambered for .40 S&W, and that's all that it took.

Now a days, there are a variety of choices, with the 155, 165, and 180 grain varieties being the most popular. Gaming and bipedal fighting wise, you could do worse.

The two law enforcement entities who spend the most time and money testing such things, both primarily issue .40S&W offerings, the 155 grain JHP and the 180 JHP respectively. That doesn't mean there aren't other worthy options, or that they are the only ways to go. But its indicative that perhaps you could sleep well at night with a gun loaded with one of them in your night stand.

So for my money I'd advise ignoring the nay sayers, or at least understanding where they are coming from - allegiance mainly to the 9mm, 10mm, and .45acp crowd. They're good crowds to be in, for sure, along with the .40S&W crowd. They're just a bit resentful at times at the upstart eating into their pie. Oh, and you should hear them infight among themselves. :D
 
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Erik

New member
Oh, a con. The .40 S&W can't push bullets as fast or heavy as some, and will never start out as big as others. Note the history on some of those as far as popularity in SD/LEO/gamer circles.
 

Boris Bush

Moderator
FWIW guys and gals, ther is no gap between the 9mm and 45. They are both weak.

Every one of use can cite spectacular results with any pistol caliber, including 22lr. Some from first hand experience. The majority of encounters where pistol bullets were propelled down range, required more than one to do the job.

If someone thinks an invention that simply splits the difference between bad and worse and compromise by getting something between the two is on purpose getting something that is by design less than optimal.

I remember when it came out and even bought one. When I realized after years of shooting one into animals on the farm, that it gave no advantage over the other two just as weak calibers, it was the first one I got rid of, followed by the 45.

There are no winners in the caliber wars when it comes to pistols kids. They are all losers and as soon as someone is fooled into the I have the winner on my hip they are on their way to losing.

In all if you want the 40 just be aware it is not the right hand of god and will not deal death as you see fit, just the same as any pistol caliber............... weak

Pro: part of the elite know all tactikool crowd

con: cost of ammo and extra recoil cuts practice short and a greater number of lite loads that will fail you if you buy the wrong stuff.......
 

Erik

New member
By the way, if I could only have one pistol it would probably be a 10mm. I'd down load it for the streets and upload it for the fields.

But I don't only have to have one.
 

alfsauve

New member
I like it

The whole concept was to be able to put .45ACP energy into a small package, gun-wise. I got a Walther in .40S&W and I like it. The recoil is sharper but no less controlable than a .45. And the plus is the Walther is lighter and easier to carry than my 1911.
 

vox rationis

New member
re: Erik's post

great post Erik (#15)!

Also the idea that 10mm might be the best all around, as you could go full power when out in the field or go FBI load for self defense, is a compelling one.

On the other hand, and I don't know much, other than the obvious, about the 10mm, but I've read that the fact that it has a long straight case causes a relative reduced reliability.

Anyway, incidentally I currently carry .40 for CCW, in the 180 grain iteration, usually either Gold Dots or Ranger T's (RAT40's).

I am wringing my hands about which compact .45 to buy, but I'm concerned about poor velocity from a 4 inch to sub 4 inch barrel in .45 ACP. I think this is another area where the .40 has advantage, in that it was essentially created for a 4" barrel which bodes much better for compacts, and even sub compacts.
 
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