Young.Gun.612
New member
So, what's the difference between .40 and 10mm really? I understand, longer cartridge and bullet, but what is the difference in feel? Recoil and such. Also, would a gun chambered for 10mm work with a .40?
.40 S&W vs. 10mm
- Thread starter Young.Gun.612
- Start date
10 mm is higher in recoil and power over the .40. The .40 is the result of FBI testing of the 10 mm. It was to hot for some of the smaller agents to shoot comfortably, so Smith and Wesson shortened it up a bit. The only gun that will shoot both to my knowledge is the S&W model 610 revolver with moon clips. BE CAREFUL with this. I don't think a 10 mm would chamber in a .40 gun, but if it did the results could be disastrous. Hope this helps!
A quick trip to DoubleTap's website...
135gr Nosler JHP
.40 S&W - 1420fps/ 605 ft/lbs
10mm - 1600fps / 767 ft/lbs
180gr Nosler JHP
.40 S&W - 1140fps/ 520 ft/lbs
10mm - 1305fps/ 681 ft/lbs
200gr WFNGC Beartooth
.40 S&W - 1100fps/ 538 ft/lbs
10mm - 1300fps/ 750 ft/lbs
The 10mm Auto is hands-down THE most versatile semi-auto cartridge available. You can have watered-down kitty-cat loads that are at mild .40 S&W levels, or you can have ultra-hot levels that exceed .357 Magnum levels and are at the lower end of .41 Magnum ballistics.
(From midwayusa.com)
Winchester 175gr Silvertip
(145gr).357 Mag - 1290fps/ 535 ft/lbs
10mm - 1290fps/ 649ft/lbs
.41 Magnum - 1250fps/ 607 ft/lbs
135gr Nosler JHP
.40 S&W - 1420fps/ 605 ft/lbs
10mm - 1600fps / 767 ft/lbs
180gr Nosler JHP
.40 S&W - 1140fps/ 520 ft/lbs
10mm - 1305fps/ 681 ft/lbs
200gr WFNGC Beartooth
.40 S&W - 1100fps/ 538 ft/lbs
10mm - 1300fps/ 750 ft/lbs
The 10mm Auto is hands-down THE most versatile semi-auto cartridge available. You can have watered-down kitty-cat loads that are at mild .40 S&W levels, or you can have ultra-hot levels that exceed .357 Magnum levels and are at the lower end of .41 Magnum ballistics.
(From midwayusa.com)
Winchester 175gr Silvertip
(145gr).357 Mag - 1290fps/ 535 ft/lbs
10mm - 1290fps/ 649ft/lbs
.41 Magnum - 1250fps/ 607 ft/lbs
Long(ish) answer
Some folks have likely tried to shoot .40 S&W in their 10mm semi-auto pistols. They will chamber and they may fire and not likely put you or anyone else in to any immediate "danger." They run at similar pressures.
Problem is, you'd be using a shorter cartridge in a longer chamber. And it's not like using a .38/.357 as these cartridges headspace on the rim of the cartridge. Semi-auto pistols (and 10mm in particular) headspace on the case mouth, at the end of the chamber.
Shooting the short .40 cal through a 10mm subjects the chamber to wear that it was never designed to be subjected to. Though I've never done it (and won't), the end result could be that you wreck your chamber/barrel for any future use of 10mm.
Furthermore, because the round headspaces on the chamber, the .40 S&W are going to want to fall too deeply in to the chamber of the pistol and be out of reach of the firing pin. The extractor hook is going to try to hold the cartridge to the breech face. That's asking work from the extractor that it also wasn't designed to do. Add to that the fact that you are trying to feed a shorter cartridge which may not cooperate... the bottom line is that it's not going to be a good idea to shoot or even attempt .40 S&W in 10mm pistols.
Given that you can handload 10mm ammo down to .40 S&W levels... and also that half of the factory 10mm ammo offered is already weakened down close to those levels, the whole idea becomes a moot point.
Some folks have likely tried to shoot .40 S&W in their 10mm semi-auto pistols. They will chamber and they may fire and not likely put you or anyone else in to any immediate "danger." They run at similar pressures.
Problem is, you'd be using a shorter cartridge in a longer chamber. And it's not like using a .38/.357 as these cartridges headspace on the rim of the cartridge. Semi-auto pistols (and 10mm in particular) headspace on the case mouth, at the end of the chamber.
Shooting the short .40 cal through a 10mm subjects the chamber to wear that it was never designed to be subjected to. Though I've never done it (and won't), the end result could be that you wreck your chamber/barrel for any future use of 10mm.
Furthermore, because the round headspaces on the chamber, the .40 S&W are going to want to fall too deeply in to the chamber of the pistol and be out of reach of the firing pin. The extractor hook is going to try to hold the cartridge to the breech face. That's asking work from the extractor that it also wasn't designed to do. Add to that the fact that you are trying to feed a shorter cartridge which may not cooperate... the bottom line is that it's not going to be a good idea to shoot or even attempt .40 S&W in 10mm pistols.
Given that you can handload 10mm ammo down to .40 S&W levels... and also that half of the factory 10mm ammo offered is already weakened down close to those levels, the whole idea becomes a moot point.
Officer's Match
New member
I've never actually done an "apples to apples" comparison, that is to say, out of the same platform such as two 1911's, one chambered 10mm and one in 40SW. All the 40's I've had (none today) were designed around the shorter cartridge length, and recoiled sharper than my 10mm Delta Elite 1911.
- Physical dimensions of the case
- Overall length
- Structural design of the "web" inside the case
- Powder load (and resulting pressure)
This is a very subjective question that depends heavily on the weight/design of the gun(s) being used for comparison as well as the actual loads of the 10mm and .40 cartridges. The best "generalization" I can give is to go out and shoot a somewhat "hot" .38 special load and then a full .357 load out of the same revolver. It's a pretty similar comparison.
Technically the answer is yes you could make it work.
There are 10mm revolvers that (with the use of "moon clips") will work fine for both 10mm and .40 S&W.
As for a 10mm Semi-Automatic, some people have done so and had it go bang, HOWEVER doing so is MONUMENTALLY STUPID as it puts a lot of stress on parts that weren't intended to be abused like that (especially the extractor) and can cause unintended wear inside the chamber itself (because the .40 is too short to fill the chamber). I strongly advise that you don't try it.
The original 10mm loads pushed a 200gr projectile downrange at 1300fps to produce 750 ft-lbs. This compares closely to the .41 Magnum (210gr/1300fps/788 ft-lbs) in terms of ballistics.
In a semi-auto pistol it was found to be almost excessive for any sort of defensive work as many shooters couldn't deal with the recoil. Some designs couldn't cope with the recoil either (the 1911) without modifications.
Somewhat milder loads of 150, 165 and 180 grains were available and helped somewhat. The FBI liked the ballistics, but the simple truth was that many shooters - especially those of smaller stature - couldn't shoot the gun well.
Hence, we ended up with the .40 S&W and most manufacturers downloaded the 10mm itself. For instance, the Federal 10mm 180gr ammo is pushed at a paltry 1030 fps (only 424 ft-lbs) which is lower than some .40 S&W loads.
Most .40 S&W ammo produces between 380 and 500 ft-lbs of energy. The 10mm produces up to 750 ft-lbs. Some of the milder 10mm loads are good for self-defense - such as Winchester's 175gr STHP @1290 fps/647 ft-lbs. While brisk, it carries the speed and energy needed to rapidly incapacitate.
In a semi-auto pistol it was found to be almost excessive for any sort of defensive work as many shooters couldn't deal with the recoil. Some designs couldn't cope with the recoil either (the 1911) without modifications.
Somewhat milder loads of 150, 165 and 180 grains were available and helped somewhat. The FBI liked the ballistics, but the simple truth was that many shooters - especially those of smaller stature - couldn't shoot the gun well.
Hence, we ended up with the .40 S&W and most manufacturers downloaded the 10mm itself. For instance, the Federal 10mm 180gr ammo is pushed at a paltry 1030 fps (only 424 ft-lbs) which is lower than some .40 S&W loads.
Most .40 S&W ammo produces between 380 and 500 ft-lbs of energy. The 10mm produces up to 750 ft-lbs. Some of the milder 10mm loads are good for self-defense - such as Winchester's 175gr STHP @1290 fps/647 ft-lbs. While brisk, it carries the speed and energy needed to rapidly incapacitate.
TheGreatDane
New member
Just ordered a Glock 20 SF with an EFK Firedragon 10mm barrel. If it like it, I'll probably order a .40 conversion too.
super excited
super excited
Rampant_Colt
New member
you didn't hear?
10mm is the only handgun cartridge capable of blowing a man clean out of his sneakers in a shower of sparks
looks like a thermonuclear explosion to me!
10mm is the only handgun cartridge capable of blowing a man clean out of his sneakers in a shower of sparks
looks like a thermonuclear explosion to me!
Young.Gun.612
New member
Whoa!
10mm sounds like it can do some damage!
I ask because I'm familiar with the .40, as I own one. My next semi was going to be a Springfield 1911, but now I'm thinking I may have to go with something in 10mm.
Thanks for all the answers!
10mm sounds like it can do some damage!
I ask because I'm familiar with the .40, as I own one. My next semi was going to be a Springfield 1911, but now I'm thinking I may have to go with something in 10mm.
Thanks for all the answers!
The_Shadow
New member
The 40S&W is slightly shorter than the 10mm...0.142"
The 40S&W is slightly less max pressure than the 10mm...
40S&W 35,000psi vs. 10mm 37,500psi
40S&W small pistol primers/10mm large pistol primers
Both cartridges can be loaded with the same die sets
Now what does this mean velocities for the 10mm run anywhere from 50 to 300 fps more than the 40S&W when loaded to its potential fired from the same length barrels.
Here is the thing which throws off many shooters about the 10mm...most ammunition manufactures load the 10mm stuff on the weak side and not up to the full balistic potential the the 10mm cartridge is known for. There are only a couple of amunition manufactres which load to the near potential of the cartridge(Double Tap and Buffalo Bore).
Most people who utilize the 10mm for what it is capable of handload their ammo to provide the ballistics the cartridge was designed for.
Pistols such as the Glock 20 and Glock 29 have plenty of aftermarket choices and conversion barrels to accomadate cartridges like 40S&W/357Sig/9x25 Dillon with nothing more than changing the barrel out, as the cartridges feed from the 10mm magazines. The 1911 styles also have some conversions avalible.
Brass for the 10mm is avalible and cost about $136 per 1000 peices. 40 brass is everwhere and hence the conversion barrels use for cheaper to shoot and target use from the same pistol.
I hope this helps...But "BE WARNED" most people who buy the 10mm pistols usuall buy more! He he he!
I have enjoyed shooting and handloading for mine since early 1990 and am awating arrival of yet another new 10mm pistol...The VLTOR BREN TEN.
These are in the process of being manufactured by VLTOR and are based on the Original Bren Ten design from Donurus & Dixon of the late 1980's. The "Vice Model" was so called because of the use in the Miami Vice series where Don Johnson portrayed "Sonny Crockett".
Good luck!
The 40S&W is slightly less max pressure than the 10mm...
40S&W 35,000psi vs. 10mm 37,500psi
40S&W small pistol primers/10mm large pistol primers
Both cartridges can be loaded with the same die sets
Now what does this mean velocities for the 10mm run anywhere from 50 to 300 fps more than the 40S&W when loaded to its potential fired from the same length barrels.
Here is the thing which throws off many shooters about the 10mm...most ammunition manufactures load the 10mm stuff on the weak side and not up to the full balistic potential the the 10mm cartridge is known for. There are only a couple of amunition manufactres which load to the near potential of the cartridge(Double Tap and Buffalo Bore).
Most people who utilize the 10mm for what it is capable of handload their ammo to provide the ballistics the cartridge was designed for.
Pistols such as the Glock 20 and Glock 29 have plenty of aftermarket choices and conversion barrels to accomadate cartridges like 40S&W/357Sig/9x25 Dillon with nothing more than changing the barrel out, as the cartridges feed from the 10mm magazines. The 1911 styles also have some conversions avalible.
Brass for the 10mm is avalible and cost about $136 per 1000 peices. 40 brass is everwhere and hence the conversion barrels use for cheaper to shoot and target use from the same pistol.
I hope this helps...But "BE WARNED" most people who buy the 10mm pistols usuall buy more! He he he!
I have enjoyed shooting and handloading for mine since early 1990 and am awating arrival of yet another new 10mm pistol...The VLTOR BREN TEN.
These are in the process of being manufactured by VLTOR and are based on the Original Bren Ten design from Donurus & Dixon of the late 1980's. The "Vice Model" was so called because of the use in the Miami Vice series where Don Johnson portrayed "Sonny Crockett".
Good luck!
I have a Glock 20 and was shooting it just the other day. I also have a Glock 23 and the 10 certainly has more felt recoil. The Glock 20 has plenty of weight and ,for me anyway, that dampens the recoil. It is a comfortable if somewhat snappy pistol to shoot. Took it to the range with my new Sig P238. I'm breaking that in and decided to shoot the 10 as well. The ranges around here had a policy where you had to buy the ammo there and couldn't bring your own. They recently changed it so I brought my 10 and some ammo.
I had some PMC Starfire ammo that was terrible in terms of consistency and even included a squib. The Hornady 155grn HP was nice and spicy. I have shot many a round of 44 magnum and handloaded 44 specials so I would say I am a seasoned shooter and recoil has to be severe before it bothers me. I wouldn't call the 10 severe. I had a blue Combat Elite for a time back in the '90s. Bought it off my boss who sold it because he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it. The Elite was a tack driver for me but I read in a gun magazine that they had a problem with cracked slides occurring with the Elite so I got rid of it and bought the Glock.
I had some PMC Starfire ammo that was terrible in terms of consistency and even included a squib. The Hornady 155grn HP was nice and spicy. I have shot many a round of 44 magnum and handloaded 44 specials so I would say I am a seasoned shooter and recoil has to be severe before it bothers me. I wouldn't call the 10 severe. I had a blue Combat Elite for a time back in the '90s. Bought it off my boss who sold it because he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it. The Elite was a tack driver for me but I read in a gun magazine that they had a problem with cracked slides occurring with the Elite so I got rid of it and bought the Glock.
Harry Callahan
New member
Buffalo Bore makes some pretty hot stuff in 10mm, too.
The FBI testing resulted in the "FBI Load" for the 10mm which ended up being a fairly light load as far as the 10mm was concerned. They settled on that load after testing showed that it met their penetration specifications.
They never issued full-power 10mm and I'm not aware of any evidence to suggest that the lightened loading resulted from problems that some agents were having with recoil although this is a commonly repeated statement.
S&W did, indeed, determine that they could duplicate the performance of the FBI 10mm loading with a shorter cartridge but that was done completely independent of the FBI. In fact, the FBI continued to issue and use 10mm pistols for quite some time after the .40S&W became available.
In certain circumstances, there are loads that can be used interchangeably in REVOLVERS.
HOWEVER, it is really never a good idea to use anything other than the nominal caliber in an autopistol unless you have a conversion kit to change calibers. It is sometimes possible to shoot a shorter round in an autopistol, but there are 2 or 3 unsafe conditions that could result from doing this.
Peter M. Eick
New member
I have shot 40's in my 610 revolver. The problem with the 40 is that to get the velocity up you have to use a pretty quick powder since there is not a lot of space. Thus it has (in my opinion) a sharp kick to it.
10mm on the other hand is a very versatile and easy to load round. You can go pretty slow powders for a gentler recoil sensation.
My opinion is they don't call it the "40 short and weak" for nothing. Get the "40 Magnum" ie a 10mm and move on down the road. I bought 40's when I could not find 10's and would not have done it if I could have found an 10mm's back in the middle 90's.
10mm on the other hand is a very versatile and easy to load round. You can go pretty slow powders for a gentler recoil sensation.
My opinion is they don't call it the "40 short and weak" for nothing. Get the "40 Magnum" ie a 10mm and move on down the road. I bought 40's when I could not find 10's and would not have done it if I could have found an 10mm's back in the middle 90's.