.40 S&W for the noob

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WWWJD

New member
Hey all,
Nother' noob post for me. Been itching to get started with .40. I've got about 600 mixed head stamp cases (mostly Winchester), Alliant Power Pistol, CCI #500 primers. I've come down to making a decision on bullets for target shooting in my M&P full size (4.25" barrel). Will be using the Lee Classic Turret press.

MidwayUSA has quite a few in stock, so I'm not sure what my best bet is given the components listed. I've never noticed a difference in performance in any of the factory stuff I've shot, but I'm no pistol marksman either. Now that I've got a chrony and a good range to shoot at, I'd like to get my feet wet.

I was thinking I'd buy a box of those Nosler 135gr JHP, with the thought being that a lighter bullet will give me a more forgiving range in powder charge and a lighter recoiling load; any thoughts or words of wisdom?

Sorry if this is a broken record post.
 
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Ruger45LC

New member
To save on money you're going to want to buy lead bullets, they're considerably cheaper than the alternative jacketed or plated.

Generally they run between $30-40 per 500.

Strange thing about pistols is that you'll often get more recoil with lighter weight bullets as long as you're using standard charges. Most people will tell you the heavier bullets seem to shoot softer.

Power Pistol is a good powder for the .40. I've used it with the 135gr Nosler JHP and generally get between 1375-1400 fps from my 4" Glock 23. You don't have to load them to that level, but it gives you an idea of the potential.
 
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Nick_C_S

New member
Here comes ol' Nick recommending a faster powder lol.

Seriously, 135's are too light for Power Pistol. And if you're going to shoot lead - as was suggested - then you don't want P'Pstl either.

Power Pistol is great stuff. So if that's what you're going to use, load it with at least a 165g bullet, and it needs to be jacketed, or at least plated.
 
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bt380

New member
Be careful about uncoated lead bullets. The ignition of the powder and instant heat at the base of the bullet causes lead vapor which may be inhaled.
 
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Wreck-n-Crew

New member
Here comes ol' Nick recommending a faster powder lol.
Click to expand...
:D

lighter recoiling load
Click to expand...
If you want speed you can get it from Powder Pistol in the 40 that's for sure . But slower speeds will give you the softer Knocks. SLower speeds from faster powders might sound silly but look over your reload data charts, http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/RecipeList.aspx?gtypeid=1

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

and compare them to the burn rates, http://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html


Cast bullets can be had cheap. I have ordered from two places that I like....
http://www.thebulletworks.net/ and http://www.snscasting.com/40-s-w-10mm/

Just got a batch of the plated bullets with free shipping in about a week ago. If you don't like the lead, cleaning or handling they are nice. Just remember to use the mid range load data for a FMJ as the max data on the plated ones here. So if your min load on a 165 GRN FMJ starts @ 5.0 GRNS to 5.6 Max your Max load on the Plated 165 GRN will be 5.3 GRNS.
 
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Nick_C_S

New member
I'm not a big fan of lead in 40's. I mean, it can be done, but leading problems tend to be a constant battle. Just like in 9mm.

Lead works great in 38Spl, 44Spl, and 45 ACP (probably 45 Colt too, but I don't load those). And that's really about it, IMO.

And then there's the 135g bullet issue - I don't like them. They're an "unnatural" weight for 40 cal. 40 Cal's should be loaded with 155 - 180g bullets, with 165 being optimum - that's it.
 
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noylj

New member
>Be careful about uncoated lead bullets. The ignition of the powder and instant heat at the base of the bullet causes lead vapor which may be inhaled.

Can you prove this? I have recovered my cast bullets and bases look the same before and after. Lead has a high enough heat content and the heat is applied for such a short time, that nothing happens.
Some folks do get so leading on their compensators, probably from the hot gasses being blasted past the bullet while it is passing through the comp., but I haven't had that happen with any of my comped guns.
Go to Penn Bullets, Mastercastbullets.com, or Missouri bullets for cast.
Go to Precision Bullets or Bayou for coated lead bullets.
Go to Montana Gold or Precision Delta for jacketed bullets.
Be sure you know the actual groove diameter of you barrel before ordering lead bullets and be sure the bullets are at least 0.001" larger than the actual groove diameter of your barrel.
I love 155gn L-SWCs in my .40s. I'm too poor to shoot jacketed.
 
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JustSomeGuy

New member
I have fired many thousands of lead bullets (mostly 180grn) in my various 40caliber pistols. I have no leading issues, but these bullets are moving at speeds only appropriate to a power factor of about 170-175 or so, so they are in the 945-975fps range mainly which is no strain for a lead bullet. Most of my cast bullets come from SNS Casting. They are pretty hard bullets, but like has been said, lead should be at least .001 over bore size, which generally means .401 in the 40cal or .356 in the 9mm (I have shot lots of 9mm lead bullets too with good results.).

Lighter bullets at full velocity do recoil more than heavier bullets at their intended velocity. Light bullets for the caliber use much more powder to drive to reasonable power levels, and more powder will, in the end, mean more recoil.

Various powders will work well with lead and others not so much. Hotter powders like TiteGroup are abysmal with lead and will cause smoke to the point of obscuring the target in a string of fire. Some people say it is only the lube on the lead bullet, but though you cannot see it, I think some lead is being vaporized as well to make the smoke. Silhouette, True Blue, and WSF being very cool burning powders produce hardly any smoke and are in the correct power and burn range for the .40 anyway. Unique works well, but again smokes up the place if using lead bullets. All in all Silhouette is one of the best powders for 40 S&W for a wide range of loads and bullet types. It is also treated for "flash" and will be more pleasant to shoot in low light as well as when used for defensive loads. Longshot also works well if you are going for higher velocity with heavier bullets for the caliber, and again, works pretty well with lead as well as other bullet types.
 
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WWWJD

New member
I appreciate the input guys. I ordered some 165gr Rainier plated Round Nose Flat Points to get started; just a few hundred to test over the chrony and for grouping. If they don't work well, no big loss. One of my LGS has a major pile of lead cast; 155 and 180gr. I may go up there a grab a box to try. I think someone local is making these for them; Valiant brand?
 
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bigfinger76

New member
I don't like the 135 grainers either. My concern is the vastly reduced amount of bearing surface when compared to 165 or 180. While I don't know of anyone specifically who have had setback issues due to this, I like to err on the safe side.
 
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lee n. field

New member
I'm not a big fan of lead in 40's. I mean, it can be done, but leading problems tend to be a constant battle. Just like in 9mm.
Click to expand...

Hmm. I don't have a leading problem shooting my lead handloads in my XD. Maybe a bullet sizing issue?

FWIW, I load 175 grain bullets cast from a Lee 401-175-TC mold, that actually weight out closer to 180 grains. They are sized to .401. I use 4.7 grains of Bullseye.
 
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WWWJD

New member
Am I correct in saying that for the 165gr Rainier plated round nose flat point, I should be playing in the 5-6gr range using Power Pistol?
 
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Jeff2131

New member
Yes, i load 165gr FN and i load them at 6.2 grs of power pistol. I agree with nick on this one. Powerpistol is a great powder but youll get better results with a heavier bullet and youll use less powder. Remember, the heavier the bullet, the less powder in the case. But, you need to consult your reloading bible for exact specs and charges.
 
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WWWJD

New member
I put together my first batch last night with charge weights from 5.0 to 6.2gr (intervals from a Lee autodisk). I kinda guessed at an OAL based on what I was seeing in Lyman and a few other places. Right now they're all sitting at 1.125".

Does this sound ok? I also noticed that once all is said and done, my finished cartridges look like they're on Jenny Craig. Diameter at the base and neck are right at .420-.421, while the middle of the cases are floating around .417. It's not much, but it's enough to see and feel. Is this normal as well? I backed off the FL sizing die to see if that had any effect; it didn't. They all feed and chamber just fine with some wiggle room in my M&P.

11wa36f.jpg
 
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rg1

New member
165 grain is a good choice for 40 SW. I'm new to 40 loading myself and tried 4 different powders. Winchester Super Field WSF and Power Pistol were my best tested powders with WSF being my 1st pick followed closely by PP. Your overall length is standard for 165 flat points. Your charge at 5.0 grains is pretty low and you should start seeing better results up around 6.0 grains which is also not near maximum. I think you should work up to 6.7-7.2 grains carefully of course and comparing all data sources information. I wouldn't back off the sizing die as I think you need to size as far down on 40 brass as far as you can.
 
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rodfac

New member
I've had good luck with several of the 180 gr Lead Alloy Truncated Cone bullets by several manufacturers. Herco is my powder of choice so far, better than Accurate #7, Unique, Win 231, HP38, or WST. Accuracy with known good quality bullets is on the order of 2" gps at 25 yds.

That same Herco works wonders with Nosler's 135 JHP, Montana Gold's 155 gr JHP, & Remington's 165 gr Golden Sabre HP. I don't push any of the above and don't plan on carrying them for CCW purposes, but if pushed to name a good SD bullet for carry purposes, I'd take the Remington 165 gr Golden Sabre. Accuracy with these jacketed types is at least as good as the lead alloy; turning in groups down around the 2" range.

I've used both the lead and jacketed types listed above in a Colt Gold Cup Elite in .40 S&W, and a Sig P226. I've also had great accuracy and functioning with the jacketed types in a Glock 23.

While I really prefer the heavier weights, say 155 to 175 grains, those Nosler 135 gr JHP's do very well indeed, with better average accuracy than the two heavier jacketed types in both my Colt and Sig, and with better expansion due to the increased velocity.

As to powder selection, I've had the best luck with mid range pistol powders, in and around Unique's burning range...with Herco the best to date in all three of my guns, but Accurate #7 is a good 2nd choice.

Just a tip that I've found helpful....sort your brass by head stamp if you're looking for the best accuracy. And as another responder pointed out, don't mind a little hour glass shape to your reloads, mine do the same in both 9mm, .38 Super and .40 S&W.

A good loading manual is essential, and I've found both Lyman's and Speer's current offerings to be of help. Cross checking loads between them will show you what seating depth means in terms of pressure and velocity. It's important, for both reliability as well as safety!

HTH's Rod
 
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