.38spl Wadcutter Hollow Point Bullet for Self Defence

graysmoke

New member
I have a S&W model 10 2" revolver. Is the .38spl +P Wadcutter Hollow Points, a recomended Self Defence load.?
I was told that the Wadcutter is more accurate, and makes a larger deeper entry. And the Wadcutter was once used by the FBI as their standard load.
What is your opinion.?
 

nate45

New member
If you mean the .38 Special +P 158 grain Lead Semi-Wadcutter Hollow Point, then yeah its a good defense load.
 

Hal

New member
My opinion is - no ammo manufacturer markets a wadcutter as a defensive round.

If they had any real merit as one, I'd think at least one company would.

Since none do, I doubt if they are anything special.
 

PawPaw

New member
The .38 Special +P 158 grain lead semiwadcutter load is called the FBI load or the Chicago Load. It was used for a long time as a standard cartridge by the FBI. As I recall, it was the load used to finally end the Miami shootout.

There is better ammunition these days by a variety of manufacturers. However, if the chips are down and it's what you've got, you could do a lot worse than the old FBI load.

If you're talking about the practice of loading a .38 hollowbased wadcutter backwards in the case to get a long, tubular hollowpoint, that's really not a great idea. Lots of folks have tried it with varying levels of success, but I don't think anyone considers it when thinking about a good defensive handload.

There are lots of folks making good defensive ammuntion.
 

grumpa72

New member
Hal,
As a new .38 special owner (but not new to pistols or reloading), I spent some time reading reports on bullets such as the Speer 158 LSWC HP and it seems to have a very good reputation. Why do you state "no ammo manufacturer markets a wadcutter as a defensive round" when there bullets available such as this? You state it is an opinion but based on what? I saw photos of these LSWC HP bullets and they have an excellent expansion with very good penetration. I have confidence that these Speers, and other similar ones will do a fine job.

grumpa
 

AK103K

New member
I think the key word here is "semi".

The true, full wadcutters are generally "target" loads, and pretty mild. I dont ever remember seeing any factory loaded wadcutters that were loaded to +P pressures.

Semi wadcutters on the other hand have historically been used in the hunting/defensive realm.
 

l98ster

New member
As a person that shoots a LOT of 38 special, I can attest to the fact that a wadcutter (not to be confused with a semi-wadcutter) cannot be loaded past 800fps (give or take 50fps), and the skirt of the bullet not get blown off.

I have tried loading the HBWC backwards for testing purposes and although it works, the skirt of the bullet blows off much easier. At 25 yards, most of the shots look like a small guage shotgun. At self defense ranges (7 yards or less) the expansion would probably be pretty good, but penetration im sure would suck!!

I have not tested penetration of this load, so I cannot be certain.

-George
 

Ghost22

New member
Buffalo Bore loads a full wadcutter for self defense if that what you were looking fore.
http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=111

brass fetcher tested it in ballistics gel at:
http://www.brassfetcher.com/Buffalo...r standard pressure Hard Cast Wad Cutter.html

Apparently you basically get what you would expect with full diameter, wide meplat bullet: no expansion, plenty of 'crush zone' due to its sharp shoulders, and deep penetration. Modern hollowpoints would be more predictable and expand reliably, but this doesn't appear to be a bad load for defense or small game.
 

salvadore

Moderator
198ster, not all wadcutters are hollowbased, I load a wadcutter in .38 that is similar in design to these .44 spec. that I believe I could load past 900fps without getting into a +p pressure



DSC00869.jpg
 

graysmoke

New member
At my local gun shop, I pick up a box (50) Federal 'Nyclad' 38 Special +P Semi-Wadcutter HP 125 Gr.
The owner told me they were an old stock, and I got'em for $15
They all looked clean and brand new. I'll give a few a try at the range.
 

10 Beers

New member
These seem to be the only solid wadcutters I see these days, I think they actually call them button nosed. Salvadore, where do you get those cool little paint can lookin' bullets?

DSC00566.jpg
 
Last edited:

graysmoke

New member
^That raskal of a bullet above, looks like it could do a whoooole lotta opening damage.
I have priced Semi-Wadcutters on gunbroker.com...they are very expensive.
 

44 AMP

Staff
Back when the handgun world "revolved" the wadcutter bullet was the premier target load. A wadcutter is a cylinder of lead, which cut nice clean holes in paper targets. They came in two basic styles, Bevel Based (BB) and Hollow Based (HB). Normal weight for .38 cal was 148gr.

They are neither designed, nor intended for high velocity. Normally made of dead soft lead, often by swaging, they are intended as target bullets, moving at slower than full speeds (for reduced recoil), and tend to be very accurate.

You need to understand the difference between full wadcutter (WC) and semi-wadcutter (SWC) shapes. The full wadcutter is just a lead cylinder, flat on the ends, or nearly so. The semiwadcutter has a wadcutter shaped base section, but a tapered nose with a flat point.

The Keith style SWC, most common to day in one form or another has a sharp full diameter shoulder at the base of the nose section. This design has proven not only very accurate, but when cast of hard lead alloy is capable of being fired at high speeds, and excellent results in penetration. Hard case SWCs do not usually expand, but they do work well and are the preferred bullet for many hunters as well as for self defense. And the full diameter shoulder also cuts nice clean holes in paper targets.

Many people have tested wadcutters for defense loads, and the results are underwhelming...the factory target loads do not hit as hard as regular service ammo. Lower velocity, less ft/lbs energy and also less penetration.

You simply cannot load wadcutters to full velocity and get good results, the bullets are not constructed to take it. If you are casting your own, and use a hard alloy, you could, but mass market wadcutters are target slugs, only. (ok, they will do fine on small pest animals as well)

I (and many others) have also done a lot of shooting with hollow based wadcutters, seated upside down, so they have a HUGE hollow "point". Again, you cannot drive these bullets fast, but my experience is that loaded down, say 650-700fps they are excellent for small critters, have virtually no recoil, and very little penetration.

Many years ago testing on an old refridgerator showed that at about 10yds, many rounds did not penetrate the fridge wall, although some did. The ones that didn't were laying on the ground in front of the fridge, expanded to about the size of a quarter, after leaving a deep dent in the metal.

I would not recommend a load like this for self defense, because its low power and penetration would not guarantee the bullet would get in to the vitals, and reliably stop a determined attacker.

However, I think that at close range, 5 or 6 of these loads dumped rapidly into the middle of an attacker would give them serious injury, and might just change their minds, even if not physically stopping them.

Make no mistake, they can, and will kill. They are not less lethal, or less than lethal, wadcutters are deadly ammo, and have killed a number of people over the years. What they aren't, is reliable stoppers, and should not be chosen for self defense ammo, other than as a last resort.
 

salvadore

Moderator
HM, that is the lyman 429352 that casts out at a nominal 245gr, its .38 cousin is a 358344 @150gr. I own the Modern Bond equivelant mold.

Make no mistake, they can, and will kill. They are not less lethal, or less than lethal, wadcutters are deadly ammo, and have killed a number of people over the years. What they aren't, is reliable stoppers, and should not be chosen for self defense ammo, other than as a last resort.
While I don't get around to shooting a lot of people, I do believe these wadcutters are cracker jack self defence loads. They have a full calibre meplat that even LBT's WFN or semi wadcutters don't have. You don't have to hope they expand and cast with wheel weights they have great penetration. I'm told that the full wadcutter design does not lead to good accuracy beyond 50yds, but who cares. Of course that's just my two cents.
 

KyJim

New member
I like the 135 gr. +P Speer Gold Dots (for short barreled pistols) for snubby carry. My second choice is "old" technology 158 gr. +P Lead Semi-Wadcutter Hollow Points from Remington. An article from Stephen A. Camp discusses some of these old technology loads at http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/38 Special 158gr LSWCHP.htm. Velocities from his snubbies ran at 800 fps and up.

You'll notice that in the third picture down is a flattened bullet and one not so flattened. The flattened one is Remington and the one not flattened is Winchester. The Remingtons are made of softer lead and expand better.

I agree with those who think typical out-of-the-box full wadcutters are poor choices for self-defense. They are good for paper punching, teaching inexperienced shooters, and small game.
 

old bear

New member
That raskal of a bullet above, looks like it could do a whoooole lotta opening damage.
I have priced Semi-Wadcutters on gunbroker.com...they are very expensive.

Gunbroker is great for a lot of things but ammo is not one of them. Try ammo to go they usually have a good selection of ammo and prices are decent. As for the cost of ammo, what is your life worth?
 

B.N.Real

New member
As the replies suggest,the wadcutter round was primarily made as a target round to make clean cuts through paper.

The lead semi wadcutter rounds used in some specialty rounds for self defense are made stronger and heavier to not come apart as soon as they encounter the resistence of human flesh and bone.

You can buy such rounds from companies such as Buffalo Bore but jacketed hollow points are the norm in self defense rounds today.
 

btmj

New member
If I had to go to a gunfight with a 38 revolver, and I had to choose between a round nose bullet and a full wadcutter, I would choose the wadcutter.

As has been discussed in great detail above, the wadcutter is not a good defensive load. But compared to a lead round nose, it had advantages. The round nose is probably the worst possible bullet shape for 38 special.

If you were a city cop back in 1958, this might have been your choice... round nose or wadcutter. I am glad that times have changed.
 

Biff Tannen

New member
Thank you

I just wanted to thank you for starting this thread...
38, especially out of a self defense snubbie is a topic which always needs updated advice! I learn more every time someone starts one!
God bless the US!
 
Top