.38 Special Lead Round Nose (LRN) for target use?

[j-framer]

Greetings,

I've put many rounds of .38 Special downrange, but have never used anything but FMJ for practice.

However, I recently encountered a good deal on PMC 158-grain LRN .38 Special ammunition, and I am in the process of examining my age-old prejudice against un-jacketed ammunition - a prejudice that was ignorantly formed, since I've never fired a single round of LRN ammo.

Up to now, I've simply assumed that LRN ammo must be terribly dirty, and maybe even bad for the bore (I've heard the term "leading the bore" tossed around, but don't have a good understanding of what this means).

Can someone explain the pros and cons of using standard-pressure (non +P) .8 Special LRN ammo for target practice? Is there anything I should be aware of before buying several cases of this ammo (it is cheaper than any FMJ available to me right now)?

Please keep in mind that I will potentially be firing thousands of rounds of this through my S&W 640 .357. So we're talking about high volume use here.

 

[novaDAK]

If anything, plain lead is less harmful to the barrel than FMJ because there's less friction.

barrel leading refers to lead being left behind in the rifling in the barrel. Just requires cleaning afterwards, nothing more.

I don't have experience with PMC LRN so I can't comment on that.

 

[zxcvbob]

LRN don't punch very clean holes in the paper; makes it a little harder to score your targets. Other than that, they work just fine. (I don't know about PMC in particular, you might want to try a box before you buy a whole case)

 

[j-framer]

Thanks to you both. It's looking good so far.

novaDAK said:

If anything, plain lead is less harmful to the barrel than FMJ because there's less friction.

barrel leading refers to lead being left behind in the rifling in the barrel. Just requires cleaning afterwards, nothing more.

That sounds sensible. I believe my concerns over "leading" came from hearing long ago that soft lead propelled through a barrel at over a certain speed (1000 fps???) resulted in something undesirable happening. What that something was, I don't recall.

zxcvbob said:

LRN don't punch very clean holes in the paper; makes it a little harder to score your targets.

I did think of that. Happily, though, these days I use Shoot-N-C or equivalent targets almost exclusively, so scoring should still be a breeze. Shooting with those targets is so pleasurable, I can't figure out how I ever managed without them. Well worth the money.

 

[novaDAK]

Yes. Most lead bullets intended for cheap target shooting are soft swaged lead, so if they're shot at over 950-1000fps they can leave a lot more lead in the barrel than they would have at a lower speed. Factory LRN is usually under 1000fps anyhow so no worries about that. Hard Cast bullets can be driven at higher velocities.

LRN should punch the same type of holes as FMJ ball ammo as well.

 

[Sarge]

I've owned few .38 Specials over the years but my two favorites were an old 8 3/8" K38, and a Colt Army Special with a 4" barrel. Both were scary accurate with Winchester 158 grain LRN, and either of them would plant six shots in barely over an inch with that ammo at 25 paces.

My eyes were better in those days

 

[milspec45]

Hey j-framer,

I'm glad you asked this question!

I've shot allot of .38spc and .44spc LRN bullets for cowboy action without any trouble whatsoever. I've experienced a little "leading" in my .44 rifle.

I recently picked up a Smith Airweight and shot a few 158 gr LRN through it and all went well. I was considering a change to FMJ but I don't think I will based on the comments above.

Take care,

Chuck

 

[KyJim]

As others have mentioned, most of the standard LRN ammo goes slow enough to not cause problems with leading. I do suggest cleaning with a bronze brush after a range session. Check the barrel and forcing cone area for any signs of lead. If seen, there are some solvents that will clean this up. You can also use higher velocity lead rounds with gas checks without undue concerns about leading.

 

[j-framer]

Thanks, everyone! I believe I will be getting a couple cases of this ammo (provided everything seems satisfactory after a trial run of a 100 rounds or so).

 

[SavageMOA]

lead ammo goes with .38 special like peanut butter in jelly. I've only had my GP100 for a few weeks and I've already shot about 1000 rounds of lead wadcutters I loaded myself. Any leading can quickly be eliminated with a bronze bore brush.

Go for it if you are getting a good deal!

 

[MrBorland]

You mentioned this is for "target" use. You're concerned about leading and cleanliness of the round, but what about accuracy? If they're really for target use, as opposed to plinking, or close range rapid fire drills, I'd also use the initial 100 to evaluate whether they'll be accurate enough for your purposes.

 

[melchloboo]

I shoot revolver competitively, an old model 13 K frame for PPC. I have put thousands of lead rn and wc through the gun.

If the bullets are the right alloy then they leave very little lead behind. What is left vanishes with a little hoppes #9.

I know its not your question, but I also shoot .45ACP with lead swc. Same results. Thousands of rounds.

I run a hoppes bore snake (sort of like a thick shoe lace with a brass brush on it) with hoppes #9 and 90% of the time that will do after 300+ rounds. Sometimes if I see fouling I'll use a brass brush.

The only issue that may or may not matter to you is the lead exposure. I shoot at an outdoor range.

I buy from a local caster with a good reputation for alloy mixes that don't over lead. Also I think the lube plays a role, some people confuse leading with lube residue. Waxy lubes tend to get left in the barrel and look black and soft like lead. My caster uses a dry lube strip.

 

[B.N.Real]

I second what Sarge said.

The Smith Model 10 I have was clearly made to shoot those 158grn lead round nose rounds because I tell ya,I can't shoot THAT good.

Very much fun using that round in this gun at the target range.

15 yards all rounds touching in the center of the target.

 

[melchloboo]

Yes, I would add that up to 25yd. you won't see any accuracy difference for targets over a lead wc. At 50 yd. the difference is very slight.

 

[armsmaster270]

as far as the punching the target goes LRN is the same as JRN when it hits the paper. If you want nice holes go to LSWC or LWC.

 

[Jkwas]

Quality varies, so try a box first. I shoot Georgia Arms lead ammo in my revolvers with great results, but I have shot Magtech(brazil) and PMC LRN (Korea) that was so soft and dirty my revolver bound up in less than 50 rounds. Try it before you make the big investment.

 

[salvadore]

I just finished lube and sizing 300 round nose for my .38s. Lead leaves more of a mess behind than jacketed, (a passing fad), both of my model 60s get sticky cylinders when shooting a bunch at a time. If your J frame does this, a squirt of lube slicks it back up. Just a thought.

 

[j-framer]

Many thanks everyone for your interest and contributions!

Mr. Borland said:

You mentioned this is for "target" use. You're concerned about leading and cleanliness of the round, but what about accuracy? If they're really for target use, as opposed to plinking, or close range rapid fire drills, I'd also use the initial 100 to evaluate whether they'll be accurate enough for your purposes.

Thanks for pointing this out. I'm mainly practicing for defensive use, so my use of the term "target shooting" was a little misleading. This stuff is going to fired at targets, but it's not as though I'm trying for pinpoint accuracy - just what you'd call combat accuracy, I guess. (I do like to shoot at long distances just to see how accurate I can be with a J-frame, but all my shooting is done free-hand - no bench work, so I don't think any accuracy differences between the ammo will show up unless I used a rest.)

armsmaster270 said:

as far as the punching the target goes LRN is the same as JRN when it hits the paper. If you want nice holes go to LSWC or LWC.

The FMJ ammo I've been using for a while now is Blazer 125-grain +P, which has a flat nose. So the LRN likely won't be quite as neat when it punches through, but again, with the high-visibility color-marking targets like Shoot-N-C, it really shouldn't be too much of an issue.

Jkwas said:

Quality varies, so try a box first. I shoot Georgia Arms lead ammo in my revolvers with great results, but I have shot Magtech(brazil) and PMC LRN (Korea) that was so soft and dirty my revolver bound up in less than 50 rounds. Try it before you make the big investment.

Definitely. I will be getting a couple boxes first and running about 100 rounds through the 640 to see how it shoots.

salvadore said:

I just finished lube and sizing 300 round nose for my .38s. Lead leaves more of a mess behind than jacketed, (a passing fad), both of my model 60s get sticky cylinders when shooting a bunch at a time. If your J frame does this, a squirt of lube slicks it back up. Just a thought.

By the way, how much is a "bunch"? Typically, I shoot about 250-300 rounds of FMJ in a session.

 

[Casimer]

By the way, how much is a "bunch"? Typically, I shoot about 250-300 rounds of FMJ in a session.

Probably less than that, but the specific number of rounds will depend on the width of your cylinder gap - and the ammo's dirtiness of course. For instance, I have a model 14 that will start to stick at about 100 rounds of BlackHills lead SWC. BlackHills is pretty dirty IMO, and this model 14 has a smaller gap.

A bronze brush will take it off pretty easily.