I will probably be purchasing a Taurus model 85 38 special in the near future. I already own a 357 with a 2 1/4 inch barrel. I'm considering getting rid of the 357, but am concerned about the loss in power between the 38 and 357. I would like to hear from anyone with opinions on the ballistic differences between these two calibers when fired from a snubnose revolver. I know that the 357 is not as hot from a snubnose, but how much of a difference is there between the two.
38 snub or 357 snub
- Thread starter Doug S
- Start date
I'd say choose the one which allows you to carry it all the time (assuming you are buying the gun for CCW purposes).
If you're buying a belt gun, go for the .357 Magnum. You can always shoot .38 Special +P loads if you are concerned that the 2" barrel will not justify the additional muzzle blast and recoil accompanying the marginal improvement in performance of the magnum.
If you're buying a pocket gun, buy the .38 Special in an aluminum or titanium model. Most of these are now rated for .38 Special +P anyway. You'll need the light weight and smaller dimensions to carry the gun 24/7. Remember, the first rule of gunfighting is to have a gun.
What do I use? I have two .38 Special snubbies, a S&W M38 Airweight Bodyguard (nickel) and a M342 AirLite Ti. Both are carried in a Kramer pocket holster.
Justin
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Justin T. Huang, Esq.
late of Kennett Square, Pennsylvania
If you're buying a belt gun, go for the .357 Magnum. You can always shoot .38 Special +P loads if you are concerned that the 2" barrel will not justify the additional muzzle blast and recoil accompanying the marginal improvement in performance of the magnum.
If you're buying a pocket gun, buy the .38 Special in an aluminum or titanium model. Most of these are now rated for .38 Special +P anyway. You'll need the light weight and smaller dimensions to carry the gun 24/7. Remember, the first rule of gunfighting is to have a gun.
What do I use? I have two .38 Special snubbies, a S&W M38 Airweight Bodyguard (nickel) and a M342 AirLite Ti. Both are carried in a Kramer pocket holster.
Justin
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Justin T. Huang, Esq.
late of Kennett Square, Pennsylvania
Mike in VA
New member
Go with a lightweight concealed/bobbed hammer .357, load up or down according toyour situation. Versatiility is good. M2
I truly do not see the added advantages of the aluminum or titanium pistols. Yeah, they're lighter. Okay. I wear an all-steel S&W .357 snubbie with an enclosed hammer on my ankle for 8 hours a day, and to tell you the truth, after the first 30 seconds I forget its there.
Maybe thats just me. I dunno. I'll echo Mike in VA: get the .357. If you want to shoot .38 out of a .357, you can. If you want to do the opposite, well...its harder.
Mike
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"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein
Maybe thats just me. I dunno. I'll echo Mike in VA: get the .357. If you want to shoot .38 out of a .357, you can. If you want to do the opposite, well...its harder.
Mike
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"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein
Captain Bligh
New member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Coronach:
I truly do not see the added advantages of the aluminum or titanium pistols. Yeah, they're lighter. Okay. I wear an all-steel S&W .357 snubbie with an enclosed hammer on my ankle for 8 hours a day, and to tell you the truth, after the first 30 seconds I forget its there.
[/quote]
Of course there is the pronounced limp to contend with but its advantage is that it helps get better parking places at the mall!
Seriously, though, I agree with Coronach. My second favorite carry pistol is a J-frame .357 Model 60. I enjoy shooting my carry guns and to me the weight trade off isn't worth the increased recoil from aluminum or titanium. Besides, after lugging around a steel Kimber most of the time, the 22 oz. of a J-frame feels like nothing at all. Everything is relative.
The .357 offers you more flexibility and ammo choices. I can't figure why someone would prefer to have a .38.
RJ
I truly do not see the added advantages of the aluminum or titanium pistols. Yeah, they're lighter. Okay. I wear an all-steel S&W .357 snubbie with an enclosed hammer on my ankle for 8 hours a day, and to tell you the truth, after the first 30 seconds I forget its there.
[/quote]
Of course there is the pronounced limp to contend with but its advantage is that it helps get better parking places at the mall!
Seriously, though, I agree with Coronach. My second favorite carry pistol is a J-frame .357 Model 60. I enjoy shooting my carry guns and to me the weight trade off isn't worth the increased recoil from aluminum or titanium. Besides, after lugging around a steel Kimber most of the time, the 22 oz. of a J-frame feels like nothing at all. Everything is relative.
The .357 offers you more flexibility and ammo choices. I can't figure why someone would prefer to have a .38.
RJ
Ah... Thank you for asking, Captain Bligh. 38's tend to be more accurate when fired from a 38 chamber than from a 357 chamber. Also, the loss of power when a 38 is fired in the longer magnum chamber instead of a chamber properly dimensioned for the round.
As an example, Colt once made a run of 8" barrelled Python Targets in 38 spl chambering. Had you taken 10 consecutive Python Targets off the line and then 10 consecutive Python 357's off the line the next day, the spl ammo should be more accurate and more powerful by statistically significant numbers when fired thru the 38's than the 357.
On the other hand, if you expect to need a gun , what the heck are you doing fooling around with a lousy pistol instead of an effectively loaded rifle or shotgun? Preferably one carried by a crisis response team member while you take a vacation?
BTW, just havin' some fun! VBEG!
[This message has been edited by Rusty S (edited April 25, 2000).]
As an example, Colt once made a run of 8" barrelled Python Targets in 38 spl chambering. Had you taken 10 consecutive Python Targets off the line and then 10 consecutive Python 357's off the line the next day, the spl ammo should be more accurate and more powerful by statistically significant numbers when fired thru the 38's than the 357.
On the other hand, if you expect to need a gun , what the heck are you doing fooling around with a lousy pistol instead of an effectively loaded rifle or shotgun? Preferably one carried by a crisis response team member while you take a vacation?
BTW, just havin' some fun! VBEG!
[This message has been edited by Rusty S (edited April 25, 2000).]
Kentucky Rifle
New member
Hi Doug,
We have two .38 snub nose revolvers. A S&W Chief's Special (I know, but I purchased it in 1978), and a new Taurus Total Titanium, rated for +P loads that my wife carries. They're both pretty good pistols, however the Taurus is definately a step up.
Don't call me a wuss
, but a .357 mag snub hurts my hand. And I'm used to a little recoil being that one of my carry guns is a Golck 27 (.40 cal.) The .38 Taurus is smaller and easier to conceal than the .357. I'd go with it. Especially a titanium model.
Will
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Mendacity is the system we live in.
[This message has been edited by WLM (edited April 25, 2000).]
We have two .38 snub nose revolvers. A S&W Chief's Special (I know, but I purchased it in 1978), and a new Taurus Total Titanium, rated for +P loads that my wife carries. They're both pretty good pistols, however the Taurus is definately a step up.
Don't call me a wuss
Will
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Mendacity is the system we live in.
[This message has been edited by WLM (edited April 25, 2000).]
Rusty, why would the .38 be less accurate out of a .357 ? I could be wrong, but I always thought its the barrel not the chamber that decides bullet accuracy. And magnum length chamber increasing drag and affecting power ? C'mon ! If anything I would suspect a .38 would develop more pressure in the extra chamber length as opposed to having the business end seated closer to the cylinder gap and bleeding off more gas.
Well, I guess I'll have to start shooting more .357's and stop losing accuracy to that anemic .38
.
Well, I guess I'll have to start shooting more .357's and stop losing accuracy to that anemic .38
Would go with the 357 if possible. I have the model 85 which conceals extremely well. However, I've read too many accounts in American Guardian and American Rifleman of 38spl loads failing to stop attackers.
I will probably replace my bedside gun (Taurus M85) with my Glock 22 so long as the wife feels she can handle it.
Good luck with your decision.
I will probably replace my bedside gun (Taurus M85) with my Glock 22 so long as the wife feels she can handle it.
Good luck with your decision.
Eric of IN
New member
I was told by one of the owners of a gun shop (admittedly not the best source of information) that a .357 needs a 4" barrel to burn all of the powder in most factory loadings, so a snubbie .357 has no advantage over a .38. Is there any truth to this? I wanted a 4" barrel anyway, so it didn't affect the sale for me.
Eric
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Formerly Puddle Pirate.
Teach a kid to shoot.
It annoys the antis.
Eric
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Formerly Puddle Pirate.
Teach a kid to shoot.
It annoys the antis.
Patrick Graham
Moderator
I would get the 357 also but I would only carry 38's in it for personal protection. Those 38's would be federal nyclad non +p, just std velocity hollow point nyclads. I've been in a situation where I had to discharge a firearm in an enclosed space, at a sick racoon, in a tack room, in a barn. It was a 357, I didn't hit it and I was too stunned, and deaf to do a second shot right away. That was a 4 inch barrel. I went in the house and got my 22, with stingers. Worked great. I know I have hearing damage from that incident (and others). I don't carry anything but std 38 nyclads anymore.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
I found the 640 uncomfortable for pocket carry but life is subjective.
I settled on a 642 after trading in a 442.
The 342s are interesting but SW blah
and not worth another $150 bucks for a few
ounces.
I settled on a 642 after trading in a 442.
The 342s are interesting but SW blah
and not worth another $150 bucks for a few
ounces.
juliet charley
New member
Check out the Taurus 445 CH (Concealed Hammer). I've replaced both my J-frames with it and am a happy customer. It is very "pocketable" which is how I carry most of the time, and if I have to rely on five rounds, I will take five .44 Specials (200 LSWCs) over anything .36 (.357) calibre out of a two inch tube.
Captain Bligh
New member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rusty S:
Ah... Thank you for asking, Captain Bligh. 38's tend to be more accurate when fired from a 38 chamber than from a 357 chamber.
[/quote]
I figured there must be some logical explanation besides the recoil-wussy factor!
That is an interesting study. Learn something new every day! Still, I consider a snubbie to be a close quarters gun and I don't think there would be a major problem with accuracy inside a 12' room. If I can't hit something at 12' I could just throw the thing at him and bean him a good one. Anyway, I think the bark and flash would disorient a bad guy enough he might think he had been shot and go on and expire, even if he wasn't. I'll keep the .357.
Just teasin' !
RJ
Ah... Thank you for asking, Captain Bligh. 38's tend to be more accurate when fired from a 38 chamber than from a 357 chamber.
[/quote]
I figured there must be some logical explanation besides the recoil-wussy factor!
That is an interesting study. Learn something new every day! Still, I consider a snubbie to be a close quarters gun and I don't think there would be a major problem with accuracy inside a 12' room. If I can't hit something at 12' I could just throw the thing at him and bean him a good one. Anyway, I think the bark and flash would disorient a bad guy enough he might think he had been shot and go on and expire, even if he wasn't. I'll keep the .357.
Just teasin' !
RJ
I kinda like the feel and look of S&W 640's in 357 but I think of them more as something portable and concealable in an environment where being able to use a wider variety of ammunition is available or, I would think, wherein someone might find primary handgun and backup handgun ammo compatibility to be an advantage.
While they carry tolerably comfortably enough in an ALESSI or NULL pocket holster with dress trousers, an alloy framed 38 is certainly more comfortable in pocket carry.
For my 2 cents worth, the 357 J-Frames are approaching the weight/bulk level where holster carry is more practical and if you're going to wear a belt holster you can carry a larger piece with longer sighting radius just as easily in a well-designed, well-executed belt holster combination. Note that sadly enough, MANY expensive holster-belt combos much less the cheap versions are NOT well designed and executed.
In a stubby gun, I would personally not concern myself about the difference in paper ballistics of a 38 vs a 357. The bottom line in my opinion is that for most of us simple folks, the 357 round out of a J-frame envelope is just too much of a good thing when one really looks hard at how much one's accurate repeat shot capability is degraded.
While they carry tolerably comfortably enough in an ALESSI or NULL pocket holster with dress trousers, an alloy framed 38 is certainly more comfortable in pocket carry.
For my 2 cents worth, the 357 J-Frames are approaching the weight/bulk level where holster carry is more practical and if you're going to wear a belt holster you can carry a larger piece with longer sighting radius just as easily in a well-designed, well-executed belt holster combination. Note that sadly enough, MANY expensive holster-belt combos much less the cheap versions are NOT well designed and executed.
In a stubby gun, I would personally not concern myself about the difference in paper ballistics of a 38 vs a 357. The bottom line in my opinion is that for most of us simple folks, the 357 round out of a J-frame envelope is just too much of a good thing when one really looks hard at how much one's accurate repeat shot capability is degraded.
I carry a .357 snubby all day every day. It is a Ruger SP101 loaded with Hydra-Shoks. It fits great in an Uncle Mike's size zero holster with the plastic clip cut off. I carry it in my right front pants pocket.
I used to carry a Model 38 loaded with +P, but just thinking about shooting it hurt [g], so I decided to switch to a heavier frame. I would stay away from any light weight frame. I liked the Ruger sights better than the Smith. As long as I'm shooting 125gr and not 158gr the recoil is acceptable, and I try to put 50 rounds a week through it for practice.
I used to carry a Model 38 loaded with +P, but just thinking about shooting it hurt [g], so I decided to switch to a heavier frame. I would stay away from any light weight frame. I liked the Ruger sights better than the Smith. As long as I'm shooting 125gr and not 158gr the recoil is acceptable, and I try to put 50 rounds a week through it for practice.
I have a S&W 640 .357 and a M 642 airweight .38 Spl. I find myself carrying the 642 nearly all the time. I particularly like it if I need to carry it in the pocket. I didn't find the 640 particularly heavy, but when I got the 642 I noticed a definite difference. If you don't mind a heavier gun such as the 640 there is no doubt that you have a more effective cartridge. For outside carry the 640 is fine. For IWB or pocket carry I much prefer the lighter gun. Jerry
I have both a S&W model 60 .357 and a S&W 342ti titanium .38+p (I love to brag about my collection). My experience has been that I wouldn't use either for target practice as neither is very accurate (the 60 has a 2 1/8 inch barrel, while the 342 has a 1 7/8 incher). While the 60 is mediocre to shoot, the 342 is downright uncomfortable. But they both conceal well, are utterly reliable, and pack lots of power in a small size. Given the limitation on accuracy of these guns (and thus ignoring any differences between the accuracy of .38 and .357), I'd rather have 5 rounds of .357 versus .38 (but also keep in mind that titanium kicks a whole lot more than steel). The decision to make is whether you're willing to carry the extra weight. While the 60 isn't bad with a nice ankle holster, the 342 feels like air. But don't take my word for it, go down to the store and strap each one to your ankle. While I do carry the 60 sometimes, I consider the 342 my most useful carry gun, and I carry it much more than the 60. Thus, in answer to your question (finally), I'd take the 342ti .38 special +p over the model 60 .357.
I personally like the .357 over the .38 Special because of the versatility that has been mentioned. I carry a Taurus model 605 CHSS loaded with Federal HydraShoks for CCW purposes.
I really think it is a personal thing though. Carry what you are most comfortable with.
Jim Hall
I really think it is a personal thing though. Carry what you are most comfortable with.
Jim Hall