38 or J-frame explained please

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ghostriderftl

New member
I have read in the past that the 380 acp has just the same amount of power and is equal to a J-frame shooting 38 special/+p.

Is that for real????

True the barrel is only 1 7/8" but that 38 case sure lloks like it has a lot more powder in it than the 380.

Can anyone explain if this is true or B.S. as I am no expert.
 
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10Ringmagic

New member
According to that Remington site, .38Spl +P has a heavier bullet with more velocity than the .380, which gives it more energy...makes sense to me.

Then, I have hated .380's since the one I had almost twenty years ago, bounced bullets off of trees against which I laid my empty pop cans for target practice at 21'.
 
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ScotchMan

New member
.38 Special was originally a black powder cartridge, which is why it is so long. Most of the space is empty since the advent of smokeless powder.

My understanding is .38 Special has more stopping power than .380 ACP.

There are also "special" .38 Special cartridges designed for short barrel guns in which the powder burns faster. Speer Gold Dot +P SB (short barrel) is one such.
 
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MLeake

New member
As has already been noted, the .38Special was originally a black-powder round, so its case has a lot of extra capacity. However, guns designed for the caliber can't handle the potential pressures filling that capacity with powder would create, so with lightweight bullets, the .38Special won't significantly outperform a .380, which was designed to operate at higher pressures, and with less case capacity.

Where the .38Special has an advantage, due to the case length, is that it can accept significantly longer, heavier bullets than can the .380.
 
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arizona98tj

New member
A few loads from the Lyman 48th Edition reloading manual should help you figure out which round delivers more energy.

38 Special +P loading:

158 gr 761 FPS 203 ft. lbs.
125 gr 1005 FPS 280 ft. lbs.
110 gr 1098 FPS 294 ft. lbs.


.380 ACP

115 gr 921 FPS 216 ft. lbs.
100 gr 1024 FPS 232 ft. lbs.
95 fr 935 FPS 184 ft. lbs.

If there had been .380 ACP +P listed, I would have pulled those numbers, but there were none. There are other charge weights and bullet combos....these were typical of what was in that section of the manual.
 
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Clifford L. Hughes

New member
ghostriderftl:

Not long ago I thought that the 38 Special was more powerful than a 9mm with equal bullet weights. When I ran their ballistics data on the Ohler ballistis program I found out that they are so close that they are kissing cousins. The .380 is so much less powerful than the 9mm that it's impossible for the .380 to surpass the 38 Special.

Semper Fi.

Gunnery sergeant
Clifford L. Hughes
USMC Retired
 
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MLeake

New member
arizona98tj, why didn't you pull .38 (non+P) for an apples to apples comparison? +P vs standard loads skews things.

That said, the .38 has a slight edge over the .380, given comparable bullet weights. Is it a significant advantage? No.

Assuming lightweight, comparable bullets, it really comes down to what the user shoots more accurately and quickly.

Edit: As noted in earlier posts, the .38 can use heavier bullets, which is its real advantage over the .380.

That said, I'm not a huge fan of .380 platforms; my hands are a bit too long for a comfortable grip on the small ones, and grips that fit me negate the size advantage of a .380 over a 9mm.

I don't have any .380 pistols. I have several .357 and/or .38 revolvers.
 
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MLeake

New member
Comparison of Remington .380 vs .38 from http://www.ballistics101.com/

.380 ACP
Round Type Weight Muzzle Energy (ftlbs.) Muzzle Velocity (fps)
380 JHP 88 191 990
380 MC 95 190 955
380 FNEB 95 190 955
380 MC 95 190 955


.38 Special
Round Type Weight Muzzle Energy (ftlbs.) Muzzle Velocity (fps)
.38 SJHP 110 220 950
.38 FNEB 125 178 800
.38 MC 130 185 800
.38 LWC 148 166 710
.38 LRN 158 200 755
.38 SWC 158 200 755
.38 LRN 158 200 755

Note that the .38 doesn't have much, if any, advantage at standard pressure. It's not until we get into +P that Remington .38 Special can outpace the .380 (the site had no data for .380 +P)

.38 Special +P
Round Type Weight Muzzle Energy (ftlbs.) Muzzle Velocity (fps)
.38+P SJHP 110 242 995
.38+P SJHP 125 248 945
.38+P FNEB 125 264 975
.38+P JHP 125 248 945
.38+P LHP 158 278 890
.38+P SWC 158 278 890
** Golden Saber **
.38+P BJHP 125 264 975
 
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Newton24b

Moderator
the 380 will not replace the 38 special in any format. and that is because of this important fact.

a small object of low mass at high velocity lacks the internal momentum to keep going once it hits resistance.

for the laymans guide to ammunition, 1st edition that means:

that 100 grain pill at 1000 fps has high energy figures, but when it hits a target it lacks the ability to expand and keep going.
yes it can make a hole into soft tissue and bounce around.
yes it can meet penetration requirements.
ammunition is expensive.

thats not so great when even a 2 inch barreled 38 +p with 148 grain and heavier bullets can penetrate twice the fbi testing standard AND expand at longer ranges.
 
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MLeake

New member
Newton24b, you've just basically repeated my own assertion that the .38's advantage is with heavier bullets.

But it sounded fancier, your way.
 
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Andy Taylor

New member
Another advantage of the .38 Special over the .380ACP is not only bullet wieght, but also bullet design. When a revolver bullet is made, the designers do not need to take feeding from the mag to the chamber into account. Therefore they are not handicapped into compromises in bullet performance to facilitate feeding.
 
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ClydeFrog

Moderator
Common S&W revolver frame sizes....

Many younger or new/entry level handgun owners may not be clear on the term; J frame.
A J frame is a small frame Smith & Wesson revolver in .357magnum or the more common .38spl. The very first "J frame" was Smith & Wesson's model 36 blue steel .38spl 5 shot revolver.
Smith and Wesson uses different letters to label revolver frame sizes; L, N, X, J, etc. Over time many US gunners & firearm owners also used these same terms to apply to other brands too.
For example a L frame would include a Ruger GP100, a Colt King Cobra, a Dan Wesson .357, or a S&W 686/586 DA revolver.

As for the specs of a .38spl or a .380acp I'd get a .38spl +P first. The 9x19mm +P or +P+ is far better than the .380acp in a semi auto pistol.
 
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cole k

New member
The only thing I'll say is I would rather have a .380 ACP than a .
25 ACP.
And I would rather have a .38 Spl J-Frame than either.
 
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cole k

New member
The only thing I'll say is I would rather have a .380 ACP than a .
25 ACP.
And I would rather have a .38 Spl J-Frame than either.
 
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armsmaster270

New member
On penetration of the 38Spl. 38spl +P+ 110grain fired from a 4" S&W Mod 15 went in the sternum on a downward angle through the heart, lower lobe of the lung stopping just short of the lower back just under the skin also it opened to .612
 
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8shot357

Moderator
.380 ACP

115 gr 921 FPS 216 ft. lbs.
100 gr 1024 FPS 232 ft. lbs.
95 fr 935 FPS 184 ft. lbs.
Click to expand...



38spl +P= .357cal 158g at 1000 FPS=350lb's:rolleyes:

Say goodnight Grasi.

And.....put a 9mm "luger" 9X19 shell with a .38spl. well, you get the point if you have a brain.:D
 
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