357 vs 44 mag: rifle version

[kcub]

Many people seem to use them for the same reasons, plinking, target, hunting up to and including deer out to around 100 yards. Some even use them for wild hog and black bear.

How about you? What do you use it for? What do you feed it and what's your rifle? I think of these as lever guns but there are bolt action, pump, autos, and single shots so I put this in the general forum.

I've got a big boy Henry in each caliber, brass 44, steel 357. Smooth and flawless functioning with a great variety of ammo from long heavy bullet magnum down to specials, no complaints whatsoever.

I haven't hunted with them but either should kill a deer with a week placed shot. If turkey are likely I'll probably take the 357. If pig are likely I'll probably take the 44. No bear in Texas.

 

[Mobuck]

I bought a matched pair of 94 Trappers in 357 & 44 many years back. Haven't shot them much(not at all for maybe 10 years) but the 357 using 38SP is FUN to shoot. The 44 doesn't work well with 44 SP(at least mine didn't) and wasn't all that much fun to shoot with full power loads. I took the 44 hunting once and killed a deer with a single shot at 100 yards +/-. I know the 357 will kill deer since I've done so with a 357 revolver but maybe not quite as effective as the 44.

 

[hartcreek]

You also forgot revolving carbine. I use my IJ Cattleman in .44 Magnum for deer, elk, bear whatever I feel like.

 

[Jimro]

44 Mag 1894 carbine, one of the rifles I regret selling. It was a lot of fun, very handy in the woods for hunting too.

Jimro

 

[Tony Z]

I got a Henry Big Boy in .357 and a Henry Golden Boy in .45 Colt. The .357 is far more suitable as a plinker-shorter barrel length/a bit lighter. Doubt if I would use either as a hunting rifle.

The other thing about the .357 is you can shoot .38 Specials in it, and load very lightly if you so choose.

 

[kcub]

You can probably shoot 45 Schofield cowboy loads in your 45 Colt Henry for something lighter akin to 38 special vs. 357.

 

[Tony Z]

Thanks Kcub! I'll have to take a peak at the cartridge dimensions and load data. Since I'm shooting inside in the cold months, my loads are light: 158 grain flat nose over 4.1 grains of Unique. No crack to the sound, low velocity & low pressure.

 

[kcub]

My Uberti Henry in 45 Colt is fine with the Schofields.

 

[Tony Z]

How light do you load the Schofields? I'm looking for low velocity, low pressure, for inside shooting for the winter months.

 

[kcub]

I have some factory for a S&W topbreak.

 

[Tony Z]

Made a mistake in my post of my.38 recipe: it is 4.1 grains of unique under a 125 grain flat nose (have had a container of about 100 of these for about 20 years-look like they may be a Ranier or similar construction). Shot ten this morning before charging and setting any further, and all ten fed and shot nicely, subjectively quieter than a .22 LR.

 

[bamaranger]

A Ruger (2) and a Marlin

I've deer hunted with an older Ruger tube feed Ruger .44 carbine since about 1990. About 1995 I bought a second one for parts, and danged if a good cleaning and tightening up the ejector anchor screw didn't get that "parts gun" running just fine. One wears a vintage 2.75x scope, on the other I put a set of XS ghost ring sights. I do not hunt these carbines exclusively, but on occasion where terrain is rough and ranges short. Mine are not particularly accurate, especially with 240 gr and up slugs. They shoot 180-200 grainers much better, but the lighter slugs typically do not completely penetrate a whitetail. The 180 XTP's at carbine velocities are particularly explosive. A tighter twist rate than
"1 in 38" would have made those older carbines much more flexible and accurate, thinks me anyhow. When Ruger introduced the new semi .44, and its lever counterpart, the 96, the twist rate went to "1 in 20", much like .44 revolvers, and the "new" (now also discontined) Ruger .44's did much better with the heavy .44 slugs popular today.

About a decade before I bought the Ruger .44's, I bought a pre safety, Marling 1892 in .357. Put a Lyman peep on it, and shot all manner of .38 spl and .357 mag ammo through the little rifle, including match .38 wadcutters, single loaded. I carried that little lever gun for deer a time or two, but never took a shot, never had the chance. What I did shoot a bunch of was groundhogs. I used the little carbine when the clover got up, and you could walk the contour fields and get furry pop up targets inside of 100 yds, often closer. Shot alot of those pasture pigs with .38 spl, 110 gr +P+ ammo. It was issue, and available, and worked well enough at the close ranges. I also shot a fair amount of LSWC ammo through the rifle, despite the micro groove rifling. That ammo, loaded down to about 1000 fps, was a GP woods loafing load, and cans, stumps, whatever, got plenty of .35 cal holes in them. Regreattably, I do not manage the peep sight on that 16" bbl of the Marlin so well now, and do not carry or shoot it often anymore. I suppose a tidy little compact scope (alas, a scope on a lever carbine) is next.

 

[bamaranger]

twist rate?

While I'm at it, can anybody advise the twist rate on the Henry .44's???

 

[44 AMP]

How light do you load the Schofields? I'm looking for low velocity, low pressure,

One of my old books shows the Schofield as shooting a 230gr @ 730fps.

How light you want to go is up to you, until the bullet no longer exits the barrel.

 

[kcub]

I especially like the 45 Schofields in short barrel single action revolvers. Much more pleasant to shoot than 45 Colt.

 

[Tony Z]

44 AMP: Not that slow! What I am "shooting" for is a combo of velocity & pressure that results in rounds with a subjective sound about that of a .22 LR. A .38 Special is easy to get there, as my latest 125 gr. JHP, now with 4.3 grains of Unique are still subjectively quieter than a .22, but give a more resounding whack against a steel plate (note to self: Chrony, chrony, chrony!!!).

It is time to experiment with my Henry .45 Colt and maybe even after that my Model 94 .30-30. For the Model 94, I got a crapload of lead bullets I loaded many moons (that's decades) ago. I forsee an interesting winter season with indoor experimentation! I wonder what my Ruger Model 1 in .45-70 will be like?

 

[Nail Shooter]

"JM" marked Marlins in both 357 (blued) and 44 (stainless). Shoot only my reloads with plated or jacketed bullets. Both guns have only the factory iron sights. Love both of those guns.

 

[ThomasT]

You also forgot revolving carbine. I use my IJ Cattleman in .44 Magnum for deer, elk, bear whatever I feel like.

You are correct Hartcreek. No one mentioned that gun. I am interested in hearing how many deer, elk and bear you have killed with it. Post pics if you have them.

I have lever guns in 32, 357 and 44 mag. I have killed one deer with the 44 mag. But the 357 is my favorite of the three. Matter of fact it is my most favorite of all my firearms out of 70 or so to choose from. Mine will also feed full wadcutter rounds. The marlin 357 is a much better rifle than the Rossi 357 I had. But the rossi was fun.

 

[Rich Mc]

I have a Ruger M77-357. Shoots roughly an inch at 100 with a 158 gr XTP FP load that was worked up for it. My H&R single shot shoots the same with that load as well. Sorry but no lever guns here (did have a win 30-30 once).

I was considering a M77-44 and finally decided against it.

My lil 357 bolt is 5.5 pounds, the recoil is about 5 pounds, it is a joy to shoot and drops deer and hogs without any trouble, most just kinda drop dead right there. It is phenomenal to have that kind of performance in such a pleasant package.

The only downside is the longer shots only have an entrance hole. That's what I was hoping for with the 44 mag but realize they are just bigger hollow points and not necessarily gonna penetrate more, just dump a bit more energy.

Considering trying copper bullets and 180 swift a frames to see if the penetration will come at longer ranges.

 

[Model12Win]

While a .357 leevra-gun is potent against coyote sized game and small whitetail deer within 50 yards, the .44 lever gun is TREMENDOUSLY more effective and can be used to hunt up to and including "big grizz" as they say.

The .357?

Not a chance in hell.