357 sig versus 9x23
- Thread starter Dr45ACP
- Start date
The 9x23 is an excellent round. From equal length barrels, it's somewhat similar to the 357 SIG. In today's society, it appears the cartridges that fit well into subcompact, compact, etc guns seems to be more popular. So the 357 SIG continues to catch on, IMHO. Being barrel swappable with the ever popular .40 S&W pistol isn't exactly a handicap for the 357 SIG either 
The 9x23 Win vs the .357 Sig, now there's a great debate!
With the greater case volume & from similiar barrel lengths, I'd expect the .357 Sig to be a *hotter* performer. It is hard to overcome lower case volume with pressure.
I have converted my .38 S to 9x23 (a CZ clone Witness, holds 18+1) and with its 4.5" barrel the 125gr Silvertip was moving along at 1430fps. And despite the fact that the gun was/is cheap, it is extremely accurate.
My G32 and P229 with with the 125gr Speer Gold Dot load are moving (not the guns, the load! ) about 1360fps. I have seen articles on the BHP converted to .357 Sig by Novak and velocities with the 124 XTP above 1460fps!
Regardless of which is *better*, I'd say that both (stick the .356TSW, .38 Casull and 9x25 Dillion in here too) offer about as much POP from an auto pistol with a .355 diameter bore.
Derek
With the greater case volume & from similiar barrel lengths, I'd expect the .357 Sig to be a *hotter* performer. It is hard to overcome lower case volume with pressure.
I have converted my .38 S to 9x23 (a CZ clone Witness, holds 18+1) and with its 4.5" barrel the 125gr Silvertip was moving along at 1430fps. And despite the fact that the gun was/is cheap, it is extremely accurate.
My G32 and P229 with with the 125gr Speer Gold Dot load are moving (not the guns, the load! ) about 1360fps. I have seen articles on the BHP converted to .357 Sig by Novak and velocities with the 124 XTP above 1460fps!
Regardless of which is *better*, I'd say that both (stick the .356TSW, .38 Casull and 9x25 Dillion in here too) offer about as much POP from an auto pistol with a .355 diameter bore.
Derek
Badger Arms
New member
The kin to the popular 40 auto makes this argument a moot point. I like bottle-necked pistol cartridges as they are easier to reload and headspace on a large shoulder. I might someday buy a 357 Sig and try to load wadcutters in it.
One construction factor is the fact that magazines can have a recoil shield in the shoulder. Theoretically, the bullet never has to touch any part of the gun in the feeding cycle providing more consistant expansion. The 9x23, to my recollection, also creates higher pressure than the Sig round. I'd go for the lower pressure given the choice.
One construction factor is the fact that magazines can have a recoil shield in the shoulder. Theoretically, the bullet never has to touch any part of the gun in the feeding cycle providing more consistant expansion. The 9x23, to my recollection, also creates higher pressure than the Sig round. I'd go for the lower pressure given the choice.
I thought a 9X23
was a rimless 38 Super? I'm sure my friend told me he could shoot 9X23, 38 Super or 38 Super Comp in his STI. Or did my brain stop working?
In any case all the 38s, including 38 Casull are roughly equivalent, imho. From Parabellum on up, none will do much more than any other.
The Sig works through a shorter cycle than the 9X23/Super. That's the only advantage I know, enabling it to be chambered in parabellum-sized pistols. It is not easily reloadable because of the stubby neck. I had one (a Sig 229) and reloaded for it. It was no picnic. The Super is easier to reload for than the Sig or the parabellum.
was a rimless 38 Super? I'm sure my friend told me he could shoot 9X23, 38 Super or 38 Super Comp in his STI. Or did my brain stop working?
In any case all the 38s, including 38 Casull are roughly equivalent, imho. From Parabellum on up, none will do much more than any other.
The Sig works through a shorter cycle than the 9X23/Super. That's the only advantage I know, enabling it to be chambered in parabellum-sized pistols. It is not easily reloadable because of the stubby neck. I had one (a Sig 229) and reloaded for it. It was no picnic. The Super is easier to reload for than the Sig or the parabellum.
The 357 SIG is quite easy to reload once you get the hang of it. I have a 357 SIG Safety and Reloading FAQ at my site that goes through the details.
Once the dies are set up, loading the 357 SIG is just as fast and safe as loading a straight walled case.
[Edited by petej88 on 12-24-2000 at 04:43 PM]
Once the dies are set up, loading the 357 SIG is just as fast and safe as loading a straight walled case.
[Edited by petej88 on 12-24-2000 at 04:43 PM]
"I have converted my .38 S to 9x23 (a CZ clone Witness, holds 18+1) and with its 4.5" barrel the 125gr Silvertip was moving along at 1430fps. And despite the fact that the gun was/is cheap, it is extremely accurate."
When did they make THAT ??!! Talk about uber pistol, I want one of those !!!
Wanna sell ?
When did they make THAT ??!! Talk about uber pistol, I want one of those !!!
Wanna sell ?
I have ever owned or fired a 357 Sig, so I guess I am slightly biased.
I bought a Colt Custom in 38 Super, and had Dane Burns convert it to 9x23. All I can say is WOW!
My target loads are soft, and moving at 1000 fps. Factory loads from Winchester move about 1430 fps, with 125 gr Silvertip HP. When you want to get mean and nasty, you load up some Winchester brass to 1600fps - 1700fps.
The recoil, in a 1911, is easier than either my Kimber Gold Match shooting .45 ACP, or my Premier II shooting factory .40 *&*. That is when you are shooting the hot loads, too.
The 9x23 is slightly different than a 38 Super and it's clones. One of the things it has going for it is the really strong brass that Winchester makes. I believe the pressure limit on it is 45,000, but am not sure. I do know that on some of the hotter loads, you need to be using small rifle primers as you will destroy the small pistol primers. (Note: this is my own choice, and using rifle primers and heavy loads is not recommended to all.)
I guess it depends on what you want. If you are looking for something to shoot in a small frame, I don't think that you would gain that much with 9x23. I do know that this 1911 is quickly becoming the most accurate 1911 that I own, and once I get used to it and find good loads, it may replace my .45's (did I say that??).
Basically, it shoots and hits like a hot .357 Magnum round, without the recoil and blast. And almost everyone thinks the 125 gr .357 Magnum round is a great stopper, don't they?
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that in my opinion, reloading any straight walled pistol case is going to be eaiser and faster and maybe more reliable than a bottle-necked round.
Casey
I bought a Colt Custom in 38 Super, and had Dane Burns convert it to 9x23. All I can say is WOW!
My target loads are soft, and moving at 1000 fps. Factory loads from Winchester move about 1430 fps, with 125 gr Silvertip HP. When you want to get mean and nasty, you load up some Winchester brass to 1600fps - 1700fps.
The recoil, in a 1911, is easier than either my Kimber Gold Match shooting .45 ACP, or my Premier II shooting factory .40 *&*. That is when you are shooting the hot loads, too.
The 9x23 is slightly different than a 38 Super and it's clones. One of the things it has going for it is the really strong brass that Winchester makes. I believe the pressure limit on it is 45,000, but am not sure. I do know that on some of the hotter loads, you need to be using small rifle primers as you will destroy the small pistol primers. (Note: this is my own choice, and using rifle primers and heavy loads is not recommended to all.)
I guess it depends on what you want. If you are looking for something to shoot in a small frame, I don't think that you would gain that much with 9x23. I do know that this 1911 is quickly becoming the most accurate 1911 that I own, and once I get used to it and find good loads, it may replace my .45's (did I say that??).
Basically, it shoots and hits like a hot .357 Magnum round, without the recoil and blast. And almost everyone thinks the 125 gr .357 Magnum round is a great stopper, don't they?
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that in my opinion, reloading any straight walled pistol case is going to be eaiser and faster and maybe more reliable than a bottle-necked round.
Casey