I am new to reloading. I am looking for advice from reloaders that have experience with reloading target loads for a 357 Rossi lever action rifle. For example. What type of bullets Flat head, round head? FMJ, SPJ,HPJ, lead bullets? What weight of bullets, 158,125,180? Any manufacturer bullets work better then others. Such as Berrys Bullets, Barnes bullets so on? Advice from experience reloaders would be much appreciated. Thanks
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
357 Rossi 92 lever action rifle
- Thread starter TGR
- Start date
I would avoid plated bullets, like Berry's. There may be some that are suitable for the velocities a carbine will produce, but you'll have to do some research on that, specifically. Most plated bullets are not made to be used at carbine speeds.
Expanding bullets are made to operate within a range of velocities, and the speed they can be fired from a carbine can be too much for some pistol bullets. Especially the lighter ones. 125gr JHP's can be overdriven in a carbine, resulting in "explosive" expansion and reduced penetration, which is not good if you are hunting game animals.
Also, the heaviest slugs (180+) can be loaded too long to cycle through the action. I don't know about the Win 92 design guns, but I know the Marlins are rather picky about that.
Take a look in any reloading manual that has a .357 in the rifle section, and see what they used there.
Expanding bullets are made to operate within a range of velocities, and the speed they can be fired from a carbine can be too much for some pistol bullets. Especially the lighter ones. 125gr JHP's can be overdriven in a carbine, resulting in "explosive" expansion and reduced penetration, which is not good if you are hunting game animals.
Also, the heaviest slugs (180+) can be loaded too long to cycle through the action. I don't know about the Win 92 design guns, but I know the Marlins are rather picky about that.
Take a look in any reloading manual that has a .357 in the rifle section, and see what they used there.
jetinteriorguy
New member
This isn’t necessarily true, I’ve shot thousands of CU plated bullets through my Henry with no issues, as long as you keep the MV under 1200fps. These are from both Berry’s and X-treme. I have driven them over 1200 and while accuracy was unaffected other than a POI shift the only issue I had was copper buildup in the last 5”-6” of the barrel that was no fun to get cleaned out. They work best with a crimp using the Lee Collet crimp die, it won’t cut through the plating like a stout roll crimp can do.I would avoid plated bullets, like Berry's. There may be some that are suitable for the velocities a carbine will produce, but you'll have to do some research on that, specifically. Most plated bullets are not made to be used at carbine speeds.
Expanding bullets are made to operate within a range of velocities, and the speed they can be fired from a carbine can be too much for some pistol bullets. Especially the lighter ones. 125gr JHP's can be overdriven in a carbine, resulting in "explosive" expansion and reduced penetration, which is not good if you are hunting game animals.
Also, the heaviest slugs (180+) can be loaded too long to cycle through the action. I don't know about the Win 92 design guns, but I know the Marlins are rather picky about that.
Take a look in any reloading manual that has a .357 in the rifle section, and see what they used there.
as long as you keep the MV under 1200fps.
Right, and 1200fps is pistol speed, not carbine speed.
I do not know if there are plated bullets rated for the 1600-2200fps range that carbine velocities can reach, but the common pistol plated bullets are to be held to 1200fps and under, by the maker's recommendations.
458winshooter
New member
357 carbine
I have one early 1990's vintage and as far as bullets go it isn't a fan of anything light weight such as 110's or 125's nor does it care for cast bullets without a gas check.158 jacketed are the most accurate in mine. The Ray Thompson 358156 cast gas checked is the most accurate cast bullet I've found but it still doesn't group as well as jacketed bullets. Still yet it is a fun little gun to have around.
I have one early 1990's vintage and as far as bullets go it isn't a fan of anything light weight such as 110's or 125's nor does it care for cast bullets without a gas check.158 jacketed are the most accurate in mine. The Ray Thompson 358156 cast gas checked is the most accurate cast bullet I've found but it still doesn't group as well as jacketed bullets. Still yet it is a fun little gun to have around.
jetinteriorguy
New member
The point is it’s not necessary to just shoot ammo at rifle velocities in order to be able to utilize plated bullets. There are heavy plated versions available that I believe are rated up to 1600 fps if I recall correctly. I’ve used these as well but never bothered pushing them past the 1200fps threshold since I was already loading for this and it’s where my sights are set. Another alternative is Hitec coated bullets. I’ve shot thousands of these and basically load them the same as plated without any issues, other than one time they shut the range down because they smelled burnt wiring and it turned out it was from the coated bullets giving off a faint smell they mistook for a wiring issue. After that I stopped running them in my rifle and limited them to pistols only just to avoid the confusion.Right, and 1200fps is pistol speed, not carbine speed.
I do not know if there are plated bullets rated for the 1600-2200fps range that carbine velocities can reach, but the common pistol plated bullets are to be held to 1200fps and under, by the maker's recommendations.
Marco Califo
New member
Berry's Bullets
"Cartridge Name: 44 Magnum
Cartridge O.A.L.: 1.575"
Max Velocity: 1850 fps"
240 gr with crimping cannelure.
https://www.berrysmfg.com/product/bp-44-429-240gr-fp
"Cartridge Name: 44 Magnum
Cartridge O.A.L.: 1.575"
Max Velocity: 1850 fps"
240 gr with crimping cannelure.
https://www.berrysmfg.com/product/bp-44-429-240gr-fp
The point is it’s not necessary to just shoot ammo at rifle velocities in order to be able to utilize plated bullets.
I agree with that. My point was that shooting plated pistol bullets out of a carbine can raise the velocity above what is recommended.
For example, a plated pistol bullet load that runs 1100 (or even slightly less) out of a pistol can reach well over 1200fps when fired through the carbine length barrel, and that's something to be aware of.
I think we need TGR to tell us what he means by "target loads." To some, this is the plinking load, which may be loaded in middle velocity ranges with inexpensive components. To others, this is to stay inside scoring rings on paper targets, for which something as mild as the 148-grain wadcutter but with a nose profile that feeds better may be what he is after. I've shot a lot of 158-grain swaged lead SWCs over about 3.3 grains of Bullseye in 357 Mag cases that have demonstrated good accuracy. I note Hodgdon's starting load for an LSWC at that weight is 3.5 grains of 231/HP38, and it produces about 900 fps in an 18.5" V&P test barrel. That's about the same as my old load. It may be something like this that he is after. We'll have to wait for him to say.
jetinteriorguy
New member
This is why I load for the carbine with my chrono then cross over and test in my pistols. Plus my criteria for pistol accuracy isn’t super stringent, as long as I can rapid fire out to 15yds and keep a full cylinder in a 5” circle I’m good. Another thing too, not all my loads are even maxed out in the rifle and definitely not hot in my pistols. I’m just target shooting and am only interested in accuracy, not hot rodding my loads. Hunting is a whole different criteria.I agree with that. My point was that shooting plated pistol bullets out of a carbine can raise the velocity above what is recommended.
For example, a plated pistol bullet load that runs 1100 (or even slightly less) out of a pistol can reach well over 1200fps when fired through the carbine length barrel, and that's something to be aware of.
Your accuracy will probably be best with something like the Hornady 158 grain XTP jacketed bullet in front of a charge of H110. Sierra and Speer bullets are also very good. Plated bullets like Berry's are often worse than lead when it comes to accuracy. If you just want plinking ammo, cast lead is going to be the cheapest driven below 1200fps. Some of the coated lead options may be ok to drive up to 1500 or so but at a certain point lead bullets will start leaving a lot of deposits in the barrel of your gun due to the effects of pressure and erosion on the bullet base. Lever guns are really not "target" guns. If you get below 2 inches at 50 yards, you are doing very well.
buck460XVR
New member
My Rossi .357 Model 92 carbine is a tack driver with just about any load I put in 'er. I have found the Rossi likes good bullets to be accurate. I did have to change the front sight in order to adjust the rear sight properly tho, as the original was not high enough. With 7.5 gr of Unique under a 158 gr JHP, it's like shooting a .22 mag and still has great accuracy. I've had good luck with just about any jacketed bullet and best consistency is with 158gr.
Problem I have with using plated bullets in any of my levers, is the lack of a cannelure on most of them. Thus you cannot roll crimp and thus they are subject to getting pushed deeper into the case during recoil.
Problem I have with using plated bullets in any of my levers, is the lack of a cannelure on most of them. Thus you cannot roll crimp and thus they are subject to getting pushed deeper into the case during recoil.
jetinteriorguy
New member
You can avoid crimping problems using a Lee Collet crimp die, they won’t cut through the copper plating like a roll crimp. Xtreme offers all their .38 caliber bullet with cannelures, and their 125gr truncated cone bullets can be had with or without a cannelure. The 148grn wadcutters do have a crimp groove instead of a cannelure, but generally neither is needed when loading typical target loads that wadcutters will be used for.My Rossi .357 Model 92 carbine is a tack driver with just about any load I put in 'er. I have found the Rossi likes good bullets to be accurate. I did have to change the front sight in order to adjust the rear sight properly tho, as the original was not high enough. With 7.5 gr of Unique under a 158 gr JHP, it's like shooting a .22 mag and still has great accuracy. I've had good luck with just about any jacketed bullet and best consistency is with 158gr.
Problem I have with using plated bullets in any of my levers, is the lack of a cannelure on most of them. Thus you cannot roll crimp and thus they are subject to getting pushed deeper into the case during recoil.
Is this load using .357 cases or .38 special cases?My Rossi .357 Model 92 carbine is a tack driver with just about any load I put in 'er. I have found the Rossi likes good bullets to be accurate. I did have to change the front sight in order to adjust the rear sight properly tho, as the original was not high enough. With 7.5 gr of Unique under a 158 gr JHP, it's like shooting a .22 mag and still has great accuracy. I've had good luck with just about any jacketed bullet and best consistency is with 158gr.
Problem I have with using plated bullets in any of my levers, is the lack of a cannelure on most of them. Thus you cannot roll crimp and thus they are subject to getting pushed deeper into the case during recoil.
Problem I have with using plated bullets in any of my levers, is the lack of a cannelure on most of them. Thus you cannot roll crimp and thus they are subject to getting pushed deeper into the case during recoil.
Add to that the force on the bullets due to the design of the tube magazine feed system.
The force of recoil shooting .357s isn't much, even from the light carbines, its just not nearly the same as the force of heavier recoiling rounds.
HOWEVER, look at the force applied by the tube mag system, which is a constant factor, though it changes slightly as the magazine empties.
First, side gate loading is done by pushing the cartridge in, bullet first, into the tube against the tension of the magazine spring, and this increases slightly for each following round. So, that a pressure on an uncrimped bullet, right there.
During recoil, the entire column of rounds in the tube can shift forward, and then are slammed back against the stops by the spring.
And then, when you cycle the action, one round gets slammed back onto the lifter as the entire column of ammo is pushed by the mag spring. As each round gets fed, it's bullet is bearing the force of the rounds ahead of it in the tube, and this force is pushing on the bullet.
Neck tension alone may not be (and often isn't) enough to hold the bullets in their proper place during the tube mag rifle feeding process.
If you look at the history of lever guns and their ammo, you'll find that all the rounds made for them are factory crimped, or heel type bullets (which are also factory crimped but for a different reason).
Roll crimp is best, but even a taper crimp would help, but possibly not be enough for a tube fed lever gun.
Problem I have with using plated bullets in any of my levers, is the lack of a cannelure on most of them. Thus you cannot roll crimp and thus they are subject to getting pushed deeper into the case during recoil.
Berry's has a 158gr plated 38 cal. bullet with a cannelure that is rated for 1500fps. It also states is has a thick plating.
https://www.berrysmfg.com/product/38357-357-158gr-fp-tp
buck460XVR
New member
You can avoid crimping problems using a Lee Collet crimp die, they won’t cut through the copper plating like a roll crimp. Xtreme offers all their .38 caliber bullet with cannelures, and their 125gr truncated cone bullets can be had with or without a cannelure. The 148grn wadcutters do have a crimp groove instead of a cannelure, but generally neither is needed when loading typical target loads that wadcutters will be used for.
...iffin, you reread my post, you will see I said "most", not all. I am very well aware there are plated bullets out there with a cannelure. Last thing I need is another crimp die, especially one just for crimping cheap plated bullets with poor performance. My experience with bullets, is you generally get what you pay for when it comes to accuracy. Even when plinking, I tend to prefer accuracy over saving a penny or two on a bullet.
.....this is with .357 cases. Just find that they tend to feed better than .38s. Also, for the most part, .357 cases are cheaper than .38s.Is this load using .357 cases or .38 special cases?
Berry's has a 158gr plated 38 cal. bullet with a cannelure that is rated for 1500fps. It also states is has a thick plating.
https://www.berrysmfg.com/product/38357-357-158gr-fp-tp
Again, I do know about plated bullets with a cannelure. Those Berry's sell for about 18 and a half cents apiece on the Berry's website. One can go to the Natchez website and get Hornady XTPs for 20-22 cents apiece. Those bullets will also work for hunting and real life SD, not just for plinking. Not worth having the extra stock around for 3 cents a bullet....at least IMHO.
As I said, my little Rossi is a tack driver. One reason may be because I tend to only shoot quality bullets out of it. Works for me.....others are free to feel differently.