357 Rifle Powder?

[fshfindr]

I have only used handgun loads of Unique in my 357's for my Ruger 77-357 rifle. Should I be using rifle powder like h110 or some other powder? Any and all suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks.

I'm editing after 44 AMP's reply, maybe someone can suggest a powder or tell me which they use in their 357 Carbine. Still Thanks.

 

[44 AMP]

"Rifle powder" is a somewhat variable term.

The slowest pistol powders (2400, H110, etc) are the fastest rifle powders.

There are a few rifle cases that are smaller in case capacity than the .357 mag case. .22 Hornet is one. Put 2400 in a Hornet its a rifle powder. Put it in a .357, its a pistol powder.

2400, H110, 296, and a couple of others will give you top end velocities higher than Unique. Out of a carbine or rifle length barrel their performance improves more, proportionately than a fast powder, like Bullseye, or a medium rate like Unique.

Slow powders take more grains to reach their peak, so you won't get as many rounds per pound of powder than you will with a faster burning powder.

No free lunch. Sorry.
moving to Handloading forum

 

[Unclenick]

I think a lot of folks have the mistaken idea that a longer barrel requires a slower powder, and vice versa. But while there are some odd exceptions, particularly in overbore rifle cartridges, it is generally true that the same powder will turn out to produce the highest velocities from a cartridge in all commonly available barrel lengths for it.

What actually determines the powder burn rate are expansion and sectional density of the bullet. Expansion is how much the volume the powder is burning in grows as the bullet moves forward. This volume determines how much gas is needed to sustain pressure. The sectional density determines how quickly that pressure accelerates the bullet. Together they determine how quickly the space the powder is burning in grows, and that determines how fast the powder has to burn to maintain pressure. Notice that the length of the barrel was absent from those considerations.

 

[Clark]

There are load books [Speer 12 comes to mind] that have 357 mag handgun recipes separate from 357 magnum rifle recipes, but they are the same.

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond or not covered by currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.


I have experimented with 38 special in a strong rifle:

The SAAMI registered max average pressure for 357 mag is driven by fingertip extraction of 5 or 6 cases with a steel chamber wall 0.050" thick. Tempered cartridge brass cannot match the elastic deformation of even annealed steel, so the .05" thick chamber stretches and comes back to where it was. The brass can take a set [some plastic deformation] and stays bigger. The cases are hard to extract above 35 or 40 kpsi.
But in the Ruger 77 with chamber walls 0.750" thick and extracting a single round with a bolt handle prying against the extractor cam, the brass can be extracted to >80 kpsi. Too bad the primer is not up to that. Switching to a CCI 450 magnum small rifle primer, the primer will still pierce in a work up before the brass flows. Send the bolt to Gre-Tan to get the firing pin and hole bushed, and the primer will still pierce first. ~~ 85 kpsi.

A disappointing aspect of 158 gr Bullseye at 35kpsi vs 80 kpsi is that there is not much increase in performance from a deer hunting perspective.

I have come to the conclusion that reaming out to 357 MAX does not help much.
The full solution is to ream to 357 MAX, and throat out to where the bullet is just hanging on with the mouth of the case.
Take pointy bullets with boat tails and maybe I can lob one in on a deer at 400 yards with fast killing power. The 200 gr Nosler Accubond comes to mind.

-------------------------
But life is so much easier if you let handgun cartridge cabines be handgun cartridge carbines. Use 357 mag book loads, shoot holes in a 100 yard target and say, "Gee whiz, great groups and it does not kick!"

 

[gwpercle]

In a rifle 2400 is going to be hard to beat. It's an older powder but still one of the best for 357, 41 and 44 magnum loads for hunting.
Gary

 

[TimSr]

What is it you are looking to improve on? 110 or 296 will give you higher velocity if thats what you want. I've gotten better accuracy out of them than Unique with jacketed bullets in pistol loads. 2400 and 4227 are other popular choices, but I've not used them. Alliant has a fairly new MP-300 I think it s that looks like their version of 110/296. All of these will give you better velocity in upper level magnum loads than Unique if that is what you seek.

My manuals have rifle sections for 357 but the only difference in the load data is the velocities.

 

[fshfindr]

Sorry, I should have included my goal. It's pretty simple, I want to be accurate for a 100 yd. match. So I'm looking for a powder that is accurate. I have been told that there is excessive drop and from what I have seen with just one experience at 100 yds, my 158g LRN did drop maybe 4-6 inches at 100 yds. I had to change my rear sight since it would not adjust down far enough. If the weather ever cooperates, I'll try again. Thanks.

 

[SHR970]

What kind of bullets are / will you be using? swaged, cast, plated, or jacketd? It can make a difference. You have to keep velocities down with swaged, cast you need to avoid certain powders that will scorch the base, plated can be driven harder (depends on brand and type), and jacketed you can drive as hard as you want. This can and will make a difference in the powder choices that are suited to your application.

 

[44 AMP]

maybe someone can suggest a powder or tell me which they use in their 357 Carbine.

Sorry, forgot to give you a suggestion.

I use 2400 in a Marlin 1894 carbine with 125gr, and have hit 2200fps, and while it is overdriving that bullet, it is very impressive. Think small hand grenade.

For your match? I have no idea what would be most accurate in your rifle, but I can tell you that maximum loads often don't group as well as something a bit less than all out max.

Every gun and ammo combination is a unique mix of things, and while most act very similar, the "stars can line up" and you can get performance significantly better or worse than the usual. The only way to see if some combination is accurate in your gun is to shoot it in your gun.

 

[Snyper]

I want to be accurate for a 100 yd. match. So I'm looking for a powder that is accurate.

I have been told that there is excessive drop and from what I have seen with just one experience at 100 yds, my 158g LRN did drop maybe 4-6 inches at 100 yds.

If you're shooting a "100 yd match", there will be no drop at 100 yds, since that will be the range at which you set your zero.

It's far easier to adjust your sights than to adjust the loads

Find one that is the most accurate and don't overthink the powder choice

You may well find it's a load you already use

 

[Salmoneye]

I have been told that there is excessive drop and from what I have seen with just one experience at 100 yds, my 158g LRN did drop maybe 4-6 inches at 100 yds. I had to change my rear sight since it would not adjust down far enough.

You do not move the rear sight 'down' to raise point of impact...

Move the rear sight in the direction you want to move the bullets on the target...

 

[TimSr]

Your powder choice should match your bullet, and your bullet will be the most critical component for accurracy. Does this match limit your bullet choices?

 

[fshfindr]

Salmoneye, Ooops. I did have to replace the rear sight. It is a Skinner sight that needed a longer threaded area. I had turned it up to the point where it ran out of thread and fell out. The bullet is a Lee TL358-158-2R LRN. The BC is .131. Snyper so there certainly is bullet drop and yes it is corrected with the sight. I estimate that it dropped about 4-5 inches. Also, it is advertised as 158 but it drops out at 150-151g.

 

[buck460XVR]

There are load books [Speer 12 comes to mind] that have 357 mag handgun recipes separate from 357 magnum rifle recipes, but they are the same.

Many of them tho, eliminate the faster powders(such as Unique) because of the higher risk of squibs in the longer barrels. I've used Unique in my .357 levers for years with no problems. One of my mentors years ago told me to make sure if you use revolver data for a long-gun in .357, you want to make sure that the handgun load will produce over 850 fps in the handgun to make sure it clears the barrel in a rifle.

My .357 carbines shoot the low recoil Unique loads just as accurately as the hunting loads using H110/W296.

 

[zxcvbob]

Herco is a great powder in .357 Magnum with 158 grain cast bullets; rifle or revolver. I *think* the load is 8.0 grains, but not sure; I haven't loaded any .357's in a while. You need to look up real load data if you choose to try it.

AA#7 is good too; I use it more with jacketed bullets. Neither of these are absolutely-the-highest-FPS powders but they're up there, and accurate, and economical to use.

 

[Reloader270]

We use a powder S265 which is +- the same as IMR4227. I load 15.0grain, but I use Fed 205 primers (SR). I also use a little decron filler. I shoot it in my Marlin .357Magnum and I get a velocity of 1600fps on 158grain JSP bullets. I use this combination for the reason that without the decron and the SR primer I experienced a lot a unburned powder in the barrel after shooting. After using the decron and SR primer, the unburned powder is almost eliminated. I had also tried CCI400 and CCI450 SR primers, but the Marlin had problems with a few of them not being struck hard enough to ignite. The Federal 205 SR Primers works every time. The Marlin also has micro grooving and that is probably the reason for lower pressure and therefore unburned flakes in the barrel after firing.

 

[mehavey]

Either....
VN-110, or
W296/H110

 

[SHR970]

DO NOT use Alliant 410, Blue Dot, or Hodgdon Lil Gun for this application. They all burn real hot and will likely damage the base of the bullets resulting in poorer accuracy.

The question at this time is what powder(s) do you have on hand or can readily get?

Med slow to slow powders are in order.

 

[fshfindr]

You are the greatest. I have reread this twice and will probably reread again tomro. I don't claim to be the brightest shooter in the world, but I can put the target right in my sight picture. I got about as much info from you that I can absorb. I will go with 110, or 296 or 2400 in that order depending on availability. Thank You.

 

[mehavey]

Make sure you don't confuse ...

- V(ihtavuori)N-110 with
- H-110.