.357 magnum recoil question
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ChicagoTex
Moderator
noticeably stronger than any of the calibers you listed.
For me the biggest problem with .357 Magnum isn't actually the recoil, I can handle that fine, it's the sheer muzzle blast and LOUDNESS of the stuff. The only way I can describe it is that it is a "sensory overload" for me and for a split-second I kind of lose track of everything else that's going on (which is why I refuse to use it as an SD round), this is a very personal thing and I may just be sensitive - perhaps overly so, but that's my experience.
If it helps shed any light on things, I didn't find a .44 Magnum any worse (I guess once you've "overloaded" you can't really "overload more")
For me the biggest problem with .357 Magnum isn't actually the recoil, I can handle that fine, it's the sheer muzzle blast and LOUDNESS of the stuff. The only way I can describe it is that it is a "sensory overload" for me and for a split-second I kind of lose track of everything else that's going on (which is why I refuse to use it as an SD round), this is a very personal thing and I may just be sensitive - perhaps overly so, but that's my experience.
If it helps shed any light on things, I didn't find a .44 Magnum any worse (I guess once you've "overloaded" you can't really "overload more")
.357 is easily the hardest recoiling caliber of the four you listed ... In a heavy gun -- like my S&W 686+, it's absolutely not an issue, tho it sure is loud! I also have -- and occasionally carry -- a Taurus 617 snubbie, and if I don't wear a glove, I'm looking at blisters after a box of full power .357s ... when I carry it, it's loaded with .38 +ps or 110gr Pow'RBalls, which are lighter recoiling .357s and also offer reduced muzzle flash ... I love 'em ...
ChicagoTex and bikerbill put it very well. Muzzle blast and recoil are both stout from my snubby Model 19, and in my mind down right punishing from a j frame. But as bikerbill pointed out, when using a longer barrel or heavier frame the .357 is manageable. But as ChicagoTex so ably put it, "sensory overload" is a real issue for me as well. I rarely carry my Model 19 any more, and for lack of practice should give up carrying it all together. But sometimes she just calls out to me.
I agree, from full sized revolvers they are easily shot, but once you get into the snubby range, and especially the lightweight snubbies, its a whole different critter. Even the hotter .38's are a chore in them.
Even in 4" guns, the muzzle blast from certain ammo can be pretty impressive, especially in lower light.
All of the above is one of the main reasons I like my 357SIG's. Basically 125 grain 357Mag performance from smaller, higher capacity, easier to shoot automatics, without the blast and perceived recoil.
08 Cayenne
New member
To me it seems like the .40 or .45 tends to lift the muzzle while the .357 pushes straight back a lot harder, maybe that's the difference between a pistol and a revolver. I don't even notice the recoil from my .357 6" barrel GP 100, but from my SP 101 with a 2" barrel the recoil is much harder. Although not hard enough to be uncomfortable, my wife shoots the SP 101 with full .357 factory loads without a problem, and she's tiny. I guess it's all in the grips.
wnycollector
New member
I LOVE my 3 .357's! In either one of my N frames, even doubletap 125gr JHP's are more than reasonable. In my snubbie Ruger Security Six, it is manageable. In a scandium snubbie it is punishing!!!
Peter M. Eick
New member
It depends on the gun and the grips. Put a hot 357mag in a 8 3/8" N frame and it is darn mild relatively speaking. Put that same round in a K frame with service grips and a 2" barrel, it might sting a bit. Put a hot 9mm in a super compact it can be quite snappy. Put a 45acp in a Pre-25 N frame it is a glorified pop gun.
Its the grips and the gun.
Its the grips and the gun.
sw_florida
Moderator
You are all wrong, if you ask me, about snubbies being more punishing to shoot than long-barreled handguns. The laws of physics say you are wrong. I can give you an example.
I had a 2.5" barrel assembly with my Dan Wesson 715 .357 magnum. Magnum loads sounded high-pitched and flabby and the muzzle rose with a snap. I don't have the data comparison for energy deposited from any magnum load from a 2.5" barrel and a 4" barrel, but I know that Corbon makes a .38 Special +p that is rated 269 ft/lbs from a 2" barrel and 382 ft/lbs from a 4" barrel. That's 45% more energy if you add 2" of barrel, an extra barrel weight that will not make the same revolver weight 45% more. Thus, more recoil at about the same weight of revolver. I could tell the differance in recoil when I fitted a 4" barrel assembly to the same Dan Wesson 715 .357 magnum revolver. The sound from magnum loads changed to a hard, controlled thump and the revolver recoiled more straight backwards, really punishing my wrist with the same load that had made little impression on me through the shorter barrel. I'm buying an 8" barrel assembly soon, so it will be interesting to see how a .38 Special +p load changes through a 4" compared to through an 8". If I get 382 ft/lbs from a 4", adding 45% again would yield about 550 ft/lbs from the 8" barrel.
Those of you who say your longer barrels makes your loads feel lighter must either have much more mass to those guns or have an unhealthy wide barrel/cylinder gap in them, making the gas escape rather than pushing on extra through the longer barrel. Luckily I have a Dan Wesson wich allows the owner to set whatever barrel/cylinder gap he wants. At 0.004" the escape of gas is very little and the extra length in a barrel pays off in bullet speed and increased recoil. A magnum load that yields 595 ft/lbs from a 4" barrel should yield about 850 ft/lbs in the 8" barrel assembly I'm about to order from Dan Wesson. Not that I'm going to try it with magnum loads because my wrists are permanently damaged from the 700 ft/lbs loads I've been playing with so far through the 4" barrel assembly. But a .38 Special +p through 8" should sound really nice, a low thump. That will become my ear proof home defence tool. Also, I'm going to buy a speed loader for the first time for home defense.
I had a 2.5" barrel assembly with my Dan Wesson 715 .357 magnum. Magnum loads sounded high-pitched and flabby and the muzzle rose with a snap. I don't have the data comparison for energy deposited from any magnum load from a 2.5" barrel and a 4" barrel, but I know that Corbon makes a .38 Special +p that is rated 269 ft/lbs from a 2" barrel and 382 ft/lbs from a 4" barrel. That's 45% more energy if you add 2" of barrel, an extra barrel weight that will not make the same revolver weight 45% more. Thus, more recoil at about the same weight of revolver. I could tell the differance in recoil when I fitted a 4" barrel assembly to the same Dan Wesson 715 .357 magnum revolver. The sound from magnum loads changed to a hard, controlled thump and the revolver recoiled more straight backwards, really punishing my wrist with the same load that had made little impression on me through the shorter barrel. I'm buying an 8" barrel assembly soon, so it will be interesting to see how a .38 Special +p load changes through a 4" compared to through an 8". If I get 382 ft/lbs from a 4", adding 45% again would yield about 550 ft/lbs from the 8" barrel.
Those of you who say your longer barrels makes your loads feel lighter must either have much more mass to those guns or have an unhealthy wide barrel/cylinder gap in them, making the gas escape rather than pushing on extra through the longer barrel. Luckily I have a Dan Wesson wich allows the owner to set whatever barrel/cylinder gap he wants. At 0.004" the escape of gas is very little and the extra length in a barrel pays off in bullet speed and increased recoil. A magnum load that yields 595 ft/lbs from a 4" barrel should yield about 850 ft/lbs in the 8" barrel assembly I'm about to order from Dan Wesson. Not that I'm going to try it with magnum loads because my wrists are permanently damaged from the 700 ft/lbs loads I've been playing with so far through the 4" barrel assembly. But a .38 Special +p through 8" should sound really nice, a low thump. That will become my ear proof home defence tool. Also, I'm going to buy a speed loader for the first time for home defense.
Guy B. Meredith
New member
I'd agree with Peter M. Eick.
I find these loads relatively mild in a heavy N-frame and brisk in my lighter 4" M-66. I have only shot .38 spl, .22, .357 Magnum and a couple rounds of .45 ACP so am not well versed to make comparison other than the .357 Magnum feels sharp and fast while the .45 ACP is a slower sort of sensation. I would probably find extended shooting with .45 ACP easier than .357 Magnum in a same weight handgun.
I find these loads relatively mild in a heavy N-frame and brisk in my lighter 4" M-66. I have only shot .38 spl, .22, .357 Magnum and a couple rounds of .45 ACP so am not well versed to make comparison other than the .357 Magnum feels sharp and fast while the .45 ACP is a slower sort of sensation. I would probably find extended shooting with .45 ACP easier than .357 Magnum in a same weight handgun.
Apples and ?????
There is no direct compsarison, unless you shoot them all in exactly the same model and barrel length gun. You could do this with a Thompson Center Contender. Then you would have an accurate basis for comparing the recoil.
It is both the power (energy) of the round, AND the size and weight and grip shape of the gun that determines how you will feel the recoil.
Single action style guns have a much different grip shape than double action revolvers or autoloading pistols. Different grips shapes and sizes do make a difference. So does trhe verall size and weight of the gun. I have a 9mm barrel (6") for my Contender, and it recoils nothing like my P38. I have a 10" .357 mag barrel for the Contender, and it does not recoil like my 6.5" Blackhawk or my 6" S&W M28, even with the same ammo.
I have a Ruger Blackhawk 7.5" barrel with a .45 ACP cylinder, and it recoils nothing like my 1911, or my Browning BDA .45 (Sig P220). And those are just guns in the same calibers!
Of the rounds you listed, the .357 has the greatest energy, and so by the laws of physics, the greatest recoil. But what you feel, and how you feel it is "adjusted" by the size, shape, and weight of the gun you fire it out of. A micro mini 9mm is a lot worse to shoot than an N-frame S&W .357, at least for me.
There is no direct compsarison, unless you shoot them all in exactly the same model and barrel length gun. You could do this with a Thompson Center Contender. Then you would have an accurate basis for comparing the recoil.
It is both the power (energy) of the round, AND the size and weight and grip shape of the gun that determines how you will feel the recoil.
Single action style guns have a much different grip shape than double action revolvers or autoloading pistols. Different grips shapes and sizes do make a difference. So does trhe verall size and weight of the gun. I have a 9mm barrel (6") for my Contender, and it recoils nothing like my P38. I have a 10" .357 mag barrel for the Contender, and it does not recoil like my 6.5" Blackhawk or my 6" S&W M28, even with the same ammo.
I have a Ruger Blackhawk 7.5" barrel with a .45 ACP cylinder, and it recoils nothing like my 1911, or my Browning BDA .45 (Sig P220). And those are just guns in the same calibers!
Of the rounds you listed, the .357 has the greatest energy, and so by the laws of physics, the greatest recoil. But what you feel, and how you feel it is "adjusted" by the size, shape, and weight of the gun you fire it out of. A micro mini 9mm is a lot worse to shoot than an N-frame S&W .357, at least for me.
I shoot 357 in a pretty big gun, Ruger New Vaquero 4.68" barrel, similar size/heft as a Colt SAA. Over 2lbs worth of gun.
With the very hottest ammo such as Doubletap's 800ft/lb monsters, the factory checkered grips *hurt*. With smooth grips they're fine.
A big point here is that 357 performance varies. The hottest stuff from Buffalo Bore, Grizzly Ammo and Doubletap is in a whole 'nuther realm from the 40S&W/45ACP in terms of both recoil and performance.
With the very hottest ammo such as Doubletap's 800ft/lb monsters, the factory checkered grips *hurt*. With smooth grips they're fine.
A big point here is that 357 performance varies. The hottest stuff from Buffalo Bore, Grizzly Ammo and Doubletap is in a whole 'nuther realm from the 40S&W/45ACP in terms of both recoil and performance.
That was my problem, too, and why I ended up selling the 2.5"-barreled S&W model 66. It was one of those "impulse buys" that I make now and then.
The .38Spl is no problem, but the .22Mag derringer also makes one heck of a fireball. 9mm Beretta is no problem. .45ACP (Colt series 70) had quite a lot of recoil. Not something I would recommend for a noob.
Rich Miranda
New member
Just for the record, when I'm at the range and the guy next to me is shooting .357, I don't bother to shoot. I'm constantly flinching, waiting for that blast that I can actually feel hitting my face. This doesn't happen with any other round.
I love to go to the Indoor Range and shoot my "Carry Load".
Call me evil, but it's fun to watch people leave after I "rattle the windows". I shoot 50-100 rounds a session, at least once a month. The .357 Magnum can be a hard round to control, but with enough practice it can be controlled and I like and trust it's effectiveness.
Biker
I'll echo what a lot of others have already said. In comparable guns, the .357 mag. has by far the harshest recoil and muzzle flash of the calibers mentioned. In a snubbie, it can be positively punishing. Someone mentioned the concussion from it. Absolutely true, you can always tell when someone on the range has a .357. It slaps you in the face from two lanes away.
Given all that, in a larger-heavier frame/longer barrel, it's manageable. I've shot the Ruger in 4" and it's no baby gun, but the recoil doesn't make me flinch. I've also shot a 686 in 4" and it kicked like a mule. I had a S&W snubbie .357 (don't remember the model) and it got to where I flinched every time I began the trigger pull. My hand ached after 2-3 cylinders. It's history.
Color all my remarks keeping in mind I'm an avid .357 fan. In the right gun, it's a blast (no pun intended) to shoot at the range, and (again, in the right gun) it's hard to beat the power for PD.
Given all that, in a larger-heavier frame/longer barrel, it's manageable. I've shot the Ruger in 4" and it's no baby gun, but the recoil doesn't make me flinch. I've also shot a 686 in 4" and it kicked like a mule. I had a S&W snubbie .357 (don't remember the model) and it got to where I flinched every time I began the trigger pull. My hand ached after 2-3 cylinders. It's history.
Color all my remarks keeping in mind I'm an avid .357 fan. In the right gun, it's a blast (no pun intended) to shoot at the range, and (again, in the right gun) it's hard to beat the power for PD.
Mark Milton
Moderator
With the .357 the muzzle blast is considerably worse than the recoil.
In reality a four inch L frame revolver has about the same amount of recoil than a four or five inch .40 caliber service pistol.
A lot depends on frame size, barrell configuration and grips too.
I recall shooting a friends four inch K frame with the old fashioned wood target grips and getting serious hand sting.
The same gun with pachmayers was nowhere near as nasty to shoot.
Heavy barrels and underlugs take a lot of barrell bounce out of the magnum too.
Back in the 80s, when people regularly practiced with the full power loads they carried, you notice the trend was to long barrels or full underlugs and rubber grips.
In reality a four inch L frame revolver has about the same amount of recoil than a four or five inch .40 caliber service pistol.
A lot depends on frame size, barrell configuration and grips too.
I recall shooting a friends four inch K frame with the old fashioned wood target grips and getting serious hand sting.
The same gun with pachmayers was nowhere near as nasty to shoot.
Heavy barrels and underlugs take a lot of barrell bounce out of the magnum too.
Back in the 80s, when people regularly practiced with the full power loads they carried, you notice the trend was to long barrels or full underlugs and rubber grips.