.357 mag hot loads with 2400

[flintlock.50]

I’m shooting a 165 gr SWC with gas check from Matt’s Bullets in a Model 686 Plus with 4” barrel. I can’t find data for that particular bullet but I’ve seen load data for similar weight bullets using Alliant 2400 with max powder charge as high as 15.0 gr.

What is the experience here?

I’m using Winchester cases. I discovered that they weigh about 10% more than Starline cases. For similar charges velocity is 50 FPS higher in my Win cases.

Thanks

 

[Dufus]

2400 is an excellent cast bullet powder in the 357 among others.

 

[Nick_C_S]

I load my 158 JHP's (Everglades) with 15.0gn of 2400. R-P brass; CCI 500 primers. They run 1291 f/s though a 686 w/ a 4" bbl. It's a good stout round; yet "balanced" without excessive flash and thrust recoil. I've tested them with more charge weight - using both CCI 500 and 550 primers - and got little more performance. Side note: The mag primers yielded no more velocity with more pressure signs, btw. It would seem there is no benefit using mag primers with 2400.

Using Starline brass (which weigh about 5% more than R-P), I'll get cratered primers that stand out proud, locking the cylinder about 10% of the time. Oddly, the Starline ammo yields less velocity (1246 f/s) than the R-P brass ammo. Needless to say, I stick with R-P brass.

Also, either ammo seems to shoot just fine in my Henry carbine (16.5" bbl) with no signs of pressure. But the R-P brass version is still the velocity winner at 1690 f/s vs 1668 f/s.

In my experience, 158 grain bullets with 2400 is the winning combination. I used to use W296; but with lower velocity yields (admittedly, I probably could have worked up the charge weights more). And W296 comes with a huge flame bloom, big booming report, and much higher thrust recoil. The two rounds' (2400 vs W296) shooting characteristics bear no resemblance to one-another. And yet, the one that behaves much more tame, actually yields higher velocity. W296 likely comes into better balance through longer barrels - 4" just isn't enough for it.

 

[USSR]

flintlock.50,

I would suggest you use Lyman's load data for their 168gr SWC: 13.5gr of 2400.

Don

 

[flintlock.50]

I assume Lyman’s 13.5 gr is to avoid leading. I’ve used 14.0 gr with my gas check bullets with no leading. Lyman also shows 15.0 gr for a 160 gr bullet (if memory serves). That's pretty close to my 165 gr bullet. I have no intention of going to 15 gr, but I'd like to go to maybe 14.5.

Is it normal to see a minor imprint of the "receiver” on the case head? I'm not seeing any catering or primer flattening. (I have witnessed truly severe flattening and cratering years ago with a different load and gun.)

I should add that there is zero difficulty removing cases from the cylinder. No resistance at all.

Thanks

 

[USSR]

I assume Lyman’s 13.5 gr is to avoid leading.

And you would be wrong. Lyman's 49th Edition Reloading Handbook has the bullet cast using linotype, and a properly sized and lubed linotype bullet will not lead at handgun velocity/pressure. Pressure at 13.5gr is 41,100 CUP.

Don

 

[Paul B.]

"It would seem there is no benefit using mag primers with 2400."

Alliant says to not use magnum primers with #2400. IIRC, Hercules said the same thing when they were making 2400. IIRC, at one time the top 2400 load with a 158 gr. bullet was 15.5 gr. I remember shooting them from a 4" S&# pre-number Highway Patrolman (M28 these days) That load was viscious from the 4" barrel.
Paul B.

 

[Kram]

I use 12.5 gr of 2400 and 158 gr Missouri cast coated bullets for my 3 leverguns. So far its the best that I have tried, reloaded or factory.

I have 2 SA 357 handguns. I'm just starting to get into shooting them even tho I've had the Blackhawk for 33 years. I'm a lousy shot with a handgun but I'm trying to get to the range once a week and improve. I've had some good tips from some new friends.

 

[flintlock.50]

In my Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, they show a maximum load of 13.5 gr 2400 for a 158 gr SWC type bullet (358665) but 15.5 gr for the 160 gr 358311 bullet! The bands look very similar on these two bullets. Two grains difference in max charge for two grains difference in bullet weight seems crazy to me. (Both bullets were cast from linotype.)

Thoughts?

 

[CommandoX]

I am using Bayou 160 grain Round nose bullets in my Ruger GP100. They have the Hi-Tek coating on them and a Brinell Hardness of approx. 18.

I have been using 13.5 grains of 2400 with a winchester standard primer and I get no leading in the barrel. I did however have my cylinder reamed to .3585.

 

[USSR]

In my Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, they show a maximum load of 13.5 gr 2400 for a 158 gr SWC type bullet (358665) but 15.5 gr for the 160 gr 358311 bullet! The bands look very similar on these two bullets. Two grains difference in max charge for two grains difference in bullet weight seems crazy to me. (Both bullets were cast from linotype.)

Thoughts?

It all depends upon the crimp groove location (i.e. how much of the bullet is inside the case) of your bullet in relation to the bullet whose load data you want to use. Remember, the less case space the higher the pressure.

Don

 

[Rifletom]

I'm with Kram on the 158 Missouri coated RNFP and 12.5gr 2400 in my Henry[20" barrel].
Right at 1400 fps MV over the screens. And accurate.

 

[gwpercle]

Lyman Handbook #4 shows the Lyman # 358429 cast SWC , 170 grains , linotype
with 2400 powder and CCI small pistol magnum primers

start load ......9.7 grains @ 879 fps

Max. load .....13.5 grains @ 1240 fps

Start low (below max.) and work up !

The 170 grain Lyman is the closest I can find to a 165 grain bullet .
Gary

 

[David R]

Lymen # 46 shows 358311 as a 160 grain made from Linotype which would be about 165 from #2 alloy (just a guess) Seated to 1.590"

2400
Starting load 11.4 for 1024 fps
Max load 15.5 for 1344 fps. 39,700 C.U.P.

I always thought 358429 was a pressure cooker.
Max load 13.5 for 1242 fps @ 41,100 C.U.P
Under Contender, it shows 1422 fom a 10" barrel


Don't just load it, please work up to it.

David

Not trying to copyyour post DW, just want to show a comparson.

 

[USSR]

One other thing a lot of guys don't realize regarding the Lyman 358429 bullet, in the Lyman manual it is crimped over the front band, not in the crimp groove. Reason? Crimped in the groove it would be too long for the original .357 Magnum Smith & Wesson revolver's (Model 27 and 28) cylinders. So, there is a lot of that bullet in the case.

Don

 

[TX Nimrod]

The powder’s manufacturer currently lists a max charge of 14.5 grains of 2400 with a 170-grain jacketed bullet, loa is 1.59”. This bullet should give higher pressures than a 165-grain cast bullet with the same charge weight. Note the word “should”, not a very scientific term.

 

[flintlock.50]

Thanks for all the good information here.

Today I shot 5 loads from 13.9 to 14.3 grains. Average 10-shot muzzle velocities for lightest to heaviest charge ranged from the 1301 to 1321 fps. There is absolutely zero sign of high pressure. No cratering or flattened primers. All the cases eject with ease.

I also measured case diameter at the case head. Unfired cases measure 0.375" or sometimes a bit more. Fired cases, even with the lightest load, at most, measure 0.376".

I wish I knew how to post a picture of the case heads to get other opinions. But thanks again for the help.

 

[gwpercle]

How was accuracy ?
Post some target photo's too !
Gary

 

[flintlock.50]

I don't know how to post photos. Don't You just post a link to photos stored elsewhere? I don't have a place to store photos.

 

[flintlock.50]

Best group is in the 1.3" range (average of two 5-shot groups). That's at 12 yards. I'm shooting a 686 plus with 4" barrel with open sights.

No one has ever mistaken me for a real marksman. I'll shoot 4 shots touching then throw one 2" away. I attribute that to a defect in the nut behind the trigger.

Thanks