357 HP or wad cutter
- Thread starter cactus4
- Start date
Mike Irwin
Staff
False to an ever-increasing degree.
New bullet designs are showing good expansion and penetration even at lower velocities.
As I tried to point out to someone in another thread, what was true 25 years ago regarding bullet expansion is no longer true. It's a different world out there.
That said, the most critical aspect of a defensive round is adequate penetration -- at least 12".
Penetration allows you to get into vital organs to disrupt critical body functions, cause blood loss, etc.
While a minimum of 12" of penetration may seem to be excessive, it actually IS necessary, because you may not be shooting at someone who is standing stock still, facing you.
You may have to shoot through another object, such as a shoulder, hand, forearm, BEFORE you can start penetrating into the body cavity.
I've carried Federal Nyclads in my .38 Spl. for years, 125-gr. +P, but I'm currently rethinking that choice and looking for a new defensive carry round based on the Nyclad's somewhat limited penetration.
New bullet designs are showing good expansion and penetration even at lower velocities.
As I tried to point out to someone in another thread, what was true 25 years ago regarding bullet expansion is no longer true. It's a different world out there.
That said, the most critical aspect of a defensive round is adequate penetration -- at least 12".
Penetration allows you to get into vital organs to disrupt critical body functions, cause blood loss, etc.
While a minimum of 12" of penetration may seem to be excessive, it actually IS necessary, because you may not be shooting at someone who is standing stock still, facing you.
You may have to shoot through another object, such as a shoulder, hand, forearm, BEFORE you can start penetrating into the body cavity.
I've carried Federal Nyclads in my .38 Spl. for years, 125-gr. +P, but I'm currently rethinking that choice and looking for a new defensive carry round based on the Nyclad's somewhat limited penetration.
Thanks Mike for the info.I'm thinking along the lines of defensive use anyway,5,10 feet and I'm sure the 357 will have the peneration ,same for 38 right?I bought a box of 357 FMJ HP,federal hydroshock but never tried them due to the wrong info I got.I feel better now about them .
Ray
Ray
Cactus . . .
I agree with Mike and would offer one additional point. The .357 magnum -- any load, from any barrel length -- is an awesomely powerful round. For defensive purposes, if you accurately hit the center-of-mass with a .357 mag -- particularly with a "double tap" -- I strongly suspect the criminal will soon cease to be a threat.
I agree with Mike and would offer one additional point. The .357 magnum -- any load, from any barrel length -- is an awesomely powerful round. For defensive purposes, if you accurately hit the center-of-mass with a .357 mag -- particularly with a "double tap" -- I strongly suspect the criminal will soon cease to be a threat.
Ben Shepherd
New member
Remingtons 125gr. Golden Sabers are DESIGNED to expand at lower velocities. If you check Remingtons website they're only rated at 1220fps, most manufacturers list a 125 up around 1500fps. They are rated that low because that's as fast as they'll get in a snubbie barrel. With modern bullet designs they WILL expand. If they can build a 45auto to expand under 900fps, they can make 357 expand at 1200fps. (No, I have no financial ties to Remington, that's what they told me on the phone.)
Mike Irwin
Staff
"I'm sure the .357 will have the penetration, same with the .38, right?"
Maybe, maybe not.
The only way to know for sure is to use TESTED ammo.
To get a look at testing data, simply go to google.com, and enter the name and a few characteristics about the bullet you're looking at; i.e.
Federal hydrashok .357 penetration
That will bring up a number of possible matches that you can search through.
Take a look at this website. It will give you some starting information:
http://www.firearmstactical.com/ammo_data/357magnum.htm
As you get farther into the selection process, you're going to start seeing a LOT of different stuff on what constitutes a good defensive handgun round, from the "One Shot Stop" junk done by Marshall and Sanow to those who advocate light, hyper fast bullets that supposedly cause incapacitation through systemic shock (a myth, according to some doctors).
As far as I'm concerned, the single most important criteria is PENETRATION.
If a round has a hyperfast velocity but doesn't penetrate deeply enough, chances are it's going to get you killed.
If a round penetrates deeply, but doesn't expand, it's STILL more desirable than a round that mushrooms beautifully but still fails to penetrate deeply enough to disrupt vital structures.
I know I catch a lot of disagreement with this stance, but a round that goes completely through the intended target it still more desirable than a round that doesn't penetrate deeply enough.
Finally, given two rounds with different bullet weights, but which show roughly equal, and adequate, penetration and bullet expansion, but which differ in raw foot pounds of energy...
Which should you choose?
As far as I'm concerned, they are BOTH equally valid choice because they both penetrate and expand similarly even though they have different power figures.
Quite frankly, a different in 20, 50, or even 100 foot pounds is NOT going to make that much of a difference. Adequate penetration combined with expansion will.
Maybe, maybe not.
The only way to know for sure is to use TESTED ammo.
To get a look at testing data, simply go to google.com, and enter the name and a few characteristics about the bullet you're looking at; i.e.
Federal hydrashok .357 penetration
That will bring up a number of possible matches that you can search through.
Take a look at this website. It will give you some starting information:
http://www.firearmstactical.com/ammo_data/357magnum.htm
As you get farther into the selection process, you're going to start seeing a LOT of different stuff on what constitutes a good defensive handgun round, from the "One Shot Stop" junk done by Marshall and Sanow to those who advocate light, hyper fast bullets that supposedly cause incapacitation through systemic shock (a myth, according to some doctors).
As far as I'm concerned, the single most important criteria is PENETRATION.
If a round has a hyperfast velocity but doesn't penetrate deeply enough, chances are it's going to get you killed.
If a round penetrates deeply, but doesn't expand, it's STILL more desirable than a round that mushrooms beautifully but still fails to penetrate deeply enough to disrupt vital structures.
I know I catch a lot of disagreement with this stance, but a round that goes completely through the intended target it still more desirable than a round that doesn't penetrate deeply enough.
Finally, given two rounds with different bullet weights, but which show roughly equal, and adequate, penetration and bullet expansion, but which differ in raw foot pounds of energy...
Which should you choose?
As far as I'm concerned, they are BOTH equally valid choice because they both penetrate and expand similarly even though they have different power figures.
Quite frankly, a different in 20, 50, or even 100 foot pounds is NOT going to make that much of a difference. Adequate penetration combined with expansion will.
Thank you Mike,Ben and RMK for your input.Mike I followed the link you provided and decided to stick with the Federal 357mag 158 g JHP,the testing done in 89 and 91 by FBI were impressive,penetration and expansion,although shot from 3" and 4" barrel,2 1/4 cant be much less then 3".Here in our town my main concern is carjacking ,if it happens a shot thru my truck door or window will stop it before it happens.Thanks again for the info.
Ray
Ray