rangermonroe
New member
Has anyone ever heard of one of these.
Supposedly it was issued to prison guards.
I can buy it for around $300 should I?
Supposedly it was issued to prison guards.
I can buy it for around $300 should I?
351 auto loader?
- Thread starter rangermonroe
- Start date
Jim Watson
New member
Winchester had a whole lineup of blowback operated semiautomatic rifles in the early 20th century. The 1903 .22 Auto, 1905 .32 and .35, 1907 .351, 1910 .401, and model 63 .22 long rifle. The '07 and 63 lasted until about 1958. They are all good solid blue steel and walnut rifles of the period, of interesting design and manufacture; BUT their ammo is long obsolete.
I would think $300 to be a good price for a .351 but only if you had a large ammo budget to find old stock, buy custom made; or are an experienced handloader.
I would think $300 to be a good price for a .351 but only if you had a large ammo budget to find old stock, buy custom made; or are an experienced handloader.
rangermonroe
New member
Thanks Jim.
I just scrolled down a few posts and saw that someone else had asked the same question.
Sorry to be redundant.
My dad had just called me from new york, and told me of this gun. He didn't even mention that it was a rifle.
I told him to hold on for a minute and I'd ask here.
17 minutes for an answer...that's quite impressive!
Thanks again.
I just scrolled down a few posts and saw that someone else had asked the same question.
Sorry to be redundant.
My dad had just called me from new york, and told me of this gun. He didn't even mention that it was a rifle.
I told him to hold on for a minute and I'd ask here.
17 minutes for an answer...that's quite impressive!
Thanks again.
Jim Watson
New member
It only took that long because I had to look for a source of ammo. $27.95 a box from Buffalo Arms. And that in reformed brass, they don't say what.
rangermonroe
New member
Thanks again
Just FWIW, the .32 Winchester Self Loading (.32 WSL/.32 SL/.32 SLR) cartridge made for the Model 1905 semi-auto rifle was the basis for the .30 Carbine cartridge of WWII. The carbine cartridge was not identical to the .32 SL, of course, but the first test rounds were made from modified .32 SL cases. Some early lots actually used .32 SL or .32 SLR headstamp bunters; these rounds are highly desired by cartridge collectors.
Jim
Jim
rangermonroe
New member
What is one worth?
Mike Irwin
Staff
Winchester loaded this ammo up through the 1970s and into the 1980s. I still see the odd box at gunshows.
The .32 and .35 are likely candidates for some of the most useless cartridges ever created.
Winchester got a lot of calls for a more potent cartridge, and brought out the .351 in short order, and that one showed some serious sticking power and popularity.
Back in the early 1980s a cop I knew opened the trunk to his cruiser and there was a well-worn .351.
Supposedly at least one member of the posse that killed Bonnie and Clyde had .351s, as well.
The .401 was the real powerhouse of the family, and was the only round truly suitable for hunting deer. Supposedly it was also popular in South America with jaguar hunters (IIRC Peter Capstick made that point).
If you think .351 ammo is expensive, try looking up .401 ammo.
The .32 and .35 are likely candidates for some of the most useless cartridges ever created.
Winchester got a lot of calls for a more potent cartridge, and brought out the .351 in short order, and that one showed some serious sticking power and popularity.
Back in the early 1980s a cop I knew opened the trunk to his cruiser and there was a well-worn .351.
Supposedly at least one member of the posse that killed Bonnie and Clyde had .351s, as well.
The .401 was the real powerhouse of the family, and was the only round truly suitable for hunting deer. Supposedly it was also popular in South America with jaguar hunters (IIRC Peter Capstick made that point).
If you think .351 ammo is expensive, try looking up .401 ammo.
This guy says he has 180 gr RN bullets. $28.98 per 50.
http://www.huntingtons.com/bullets_custom.html
This guy says he has 170 gr RN ammo at $19 per 20 or $93 per 100. He also has Redding dies at $61. http://www.loadxammo.com/rifle.html
This guy says he has both ammo and brass. http://www.reedsammo.com/Page3.html
Brass from here at $54.97 per 50.(ouch!) http://www.qual-cart.com/351wsl.htm
The 180 grain jacketed load data I have give three loads from 1400fps to 1793fps. Shoot me an e-mail and I'll send you what data I have. toheir@hotmail.com
There's a shop up here that is listing a Win 1905 in good condition for $299Cdn.
I've also got data for the .401 SL if anybody needs it.
http://www.huntingtons.com/bullets_custom.html
This guy says he has 170 gr RN ammo at $19 per 20 or $93 per 100. He also has Redding dies at $61. http://www.loadxammo.com/rifle.html
This guy says he has both ammo and brass. http://www.reedsammo.com/Page3.html
Brass from here at $54.97 per 50.(ouch!) http://www.qual-cart.com/351wsl.htm
The 180 grain jacketed load data I have give three loads from 1400fps to 1793fps. Shoot me an e-mail and I'll send you what data I have. toheir@hotmail.com
There's a shop up here that is listing a Win 1905 in good condition for $299Cdn.
I've also got data for the .401 SL if anybody needs it.
As I write this (December 2005) Old Western Scrounger has bullets (projectiles only) at $12.99 per 100 for the .35 Winchester Self Loading or .351 Winchester Self Loading.
I was given a Model 1905 Winchester rifle in .35 Winchester Self Loading for Christmas, which is why I discovered this bargain.
I ordered 700 bullets, which should last me for some time once I start reloading for this beast.
Anyone have a Model 1905 magazine in .35 caliber to sell? I can't find one anywhere. No one seems to offer them, even Numrich Gun Parts.
Any ideas where I might find one? My rifle came without a magazine. I want to get it in shooting order.
I was given a Model 1905 Winchester rifle in .35 Winchester Self Loading for Christmas, which is why I discovered this bargain.
I ordered 700 bullets, which should last me for some time once I start reloading for this beast.
Anyone have a Model 1905 magazine in .35 caliber to sell? I can't find one anywhere. No one seems to offer them, even Numrich Gun Parts.
Any ideas where I might find one? My rifle came without a magazine. I want to get it in shooting order.
351
I inherited one from my DAD. I have accumulated 8 boxes of ammo. I consider them an investment. Worth too much to shoot. It is in good shape; sling swivels intact, has the curved plunger on the end of the forearm (newer models) as opposed to the round button.
I hunted with it some when I was a kid. Dad bought it new in the early 50's.
When it was new it would go full auto; you couldn't stop it. Dad took it to several gunsmiths before it was fixed. I have the 5 round mag that came with it and 2 8 round mags. I have read that there are 10 rounders.
I bought another some years back that someone had drilled and tapped. Traded it for a really nice Win 63.
I inherited one from my DAD. I have accumulated 8 boxes of ammo. I consider them an investment. Worth too much to shoot. It is in good shape; sling swivels intact, has the curved plunger on the end of the forearm (newer models) as opposed to the round button.
I hunted with it some when I was a kid. Dad bought it new in the early 50's.
When it was new it would go full auto; you couldn't stop it. Dad took it to several gunsmiths before it was fixed. I have the 5 round mag that came with it and 2 8 round mags. I have read that there are 10 rounders.
I bought another some years back that someone had drilled and tapped. Traded it for a really nice Win 63.
prestigegunleather
New member
to all,
i bought yet another Model 1907 in .351WSL (about 65% original finish & "refugee from a sheriff's armory") yesterday at a local "country gunshop" for 300.oo. = a SUPER bargain imVho.
reference ammo: use .357MAG cases, as they are only 0.09" shorter than .351WSL or trim down .357MAX to standard length.
FYI, the .351WSL is a KILLER on our small, but VERY numerous, EasTexas deer.
yours, PG
i bought yet another Model 1907 in .351WSL (about 65% original finish & "refugee from a sheriff's armory") yesterday at a local "country gunshop" for 300.oo. = a SUPER bargain imVho.
reference ammo: use .357MAG cases, as they are only 0.09" shorter than .351WSL or trim down .357MAX to standard length.
FYI, the .351WSL is a KILLER on our small, but VERY numerous, EasTexas deer.
yours, PG
Mike Irwin
Staff
No, it generally won't.
You have to reduce the rim in a lathe.
.35/.351 rims are .410 diameter, while a .357 Mag/Max rim is .440 in diameter.
You have to reduce the rim in a lathe.
.35/.351 rims are .410 diameter, while a .357 Mag/Max rim is .440 in diameter.
The .35 WSL and .351 WSL (they are the same except for case length) are semi-rimmed. To use .357 Magnum or .357 Maximum cases, you have to trim the rim to .408" diameter, thin it to .045", and cut an extractor groove. Not hard, just tedious if you have to make a lot of them.
Jim
Jim
bamaranger
New member
probably not bonnie and clyde ambush rifle
There has been a lot of interest in the win rifles w/ the release of the "Public Enemy" movie.
Although I have seen in print that a .351 was at the Bonnie & Clyde ambush, it was more likely a Rem 8 in .35 Rem (possibly .30 Rem)
There was a good write up on both of these rifles in an older "Police" magazine, which I posted on a similar thread a few weeks or more back.
There has been a lot of interest in the win rifles w/ the release of the "Public Enemy" movie.
Although I have seen in print that a .351 was at the Bonnie & Clyde ambush, it was more likely a Rem 8 in .35 Rem (possibly .30 Rem)
There was a good write up on both of these rifles in an older "Police" magazine, which I posted on a similar thread a few weeks or more back.
Mike Irwin
Staff
I thought one of the Louisiana peace officers who was in on the apprehension was known to carry a 1907 in .351.