338 cal rimmed wild cats

[WyomingWhitetail]

Hey all I'm looking at building up a Mosin Nagant and I have been contemplating a 338 of some sort. What I'm looking for is info on any rimmed 338 cartridges. I know there is the marlin express, and I found a few mentions to a 338/348 win ackley that I was thinking would be almost perfect. I can find reamers but no dies. What about a 338/356 win wildcat? then there is the 338/405 (i forget the name 338 GNR or something) which would also work well but I can't find reamers or dies. Looking at loading pointy bullets and shooting a long ways just because I can. The cost and availability of parent brass is also a concern

 

[cornbush]

You can always just neck up the 7.62X54 brass to .338.

 

[taylorce1]

.338X54R would be somewhere between a .338-06 or .338 Federal. That should make it a pretty good performer out to 250-300 yards. I don't think there is an animal I'd hesitate to shoot with that kind of power. 160-250+ grains of bullet will give you a lot of versatility.

Plus I think the 54R brass would be easier to find and cheaper than the .405 Win brass. I ran a .280 GNR for a little while and that thing was a beast in a 17" ported barrel. That thing would blow my hat off if I was just using ear plugs, without my muffs to shoot it as a Encore pistol. I can tell you that fire forming the brass was a problem, you'll need to anneal the brass before you neck it down, and anneal it again before you fire form it. The .338 might not split the necks as bad since you aren't going to neck the brass down as far as I did.

I wish I had your ability with machinist tools and I would play with a lot of different chamberings as well. Even if the reemer isn't available I'd think you could do it with a 7.62X54 reamer with .338 Pilot and a .338 neck reamer. If you can find a chamber print of the .338 GNR and I'd talk to Garry Reeder to get it, you should be able to get PT&G to make you a new one.

 

[WyomingWhitetail]

Maybe I'm not looking in the right places but I can't seem to find reasonable prices on x54r cases. And reamer availability might be even worse than others because most Americans don't do much wildcatting based on the x54r. I'm starting to really like the 338/348 ackley idea the reamer is no problem and I could propably get dies made. Brass is still almost a buck apiece but how many do you need with a 338. There has got to be some more out there. 338 krag maybe.

 

[taylorce1]

Graf and Son's has the brass plus I think Norma makes it as well. PT&G makes a piloted reamer, and you can rent a 7.62X54 reamer from 4D reamers, and Dave Kiff of PT&G will make you the reamer if you talk it over with him.

 

[cornbush]

Norma and Lapua make the brass, the Privi and Winchester (which are the same) are made from harder stuff so forming could be an issue, but the euro stuff is very good.

 

[taylorce1]

the Privi and Winchester (which are the same) are made from harder stuff so forming could be an issue,

Even though it is harder brass usually necking up doesn't cause the same problems as necking down. Especially when you don't have to make an improved shoulders! With the MN rifle you could even make a wild cat off of more commonly available .303 British brass which would be close to the X54 capacity.

When I ran the GNR cartridge the .405 brass was expensive so I hated ruining the brass. I don't know how comon .348 Win brass is anymore. I do know my .30-40 is getting impossible to find on a regular basis.

 

[RevGeo]

I think a .338 Krag would be a great idea. I have a wildcat 30-40 x.315 Ackley Improved that uses .315 diam bullets formed by swaging down standard .323 8mm bullets (it's a long story..).
A .338 Krag Ackley Imp. would be a great cartridge for a single shot rifle of some persuasion. It would probably have pretty close to the capacity of a338-06 in a rimmed case. I would guess you might get somewhere around 2400-2500fps with a 200-225 gr bullet.

George

 

[WyomingWhitetail]

Now that is what I call a wildcat. The 338 krag improved is tempting as well since I was already contemplating a 25 krag improved.But I'm guessing a 338/348 would be a slightly higher performance cartridge. The brass price seems to be about constant at a buck apiece except for the privi brass but it seems its out of stock everywhere.

 

[Scorch]

A few things to keep in mind:
- 348 brass is hard to find.
- 30-40 Krag brass is hard to find.
- 45-70, 444, 405 Win are available, and most likely will be for a long time.

 

[Greg Mercurio]

.338 JDJ #2 Made from .444 Marlin brass.

 

[buckhorn_cortez]

The classic wildcat for the .338 is a 30-338, or the .338 necked down to .30 caliber. For a number of years it was the cartridge of choice for 1,000 yard matches. I haven't checked the statistics lately, but for a long time it held the record for the most 1,000 yard matches won for a specific caliber.

It is far easier to neck down .338 to .30 than to neck up 7mm to .30. In necking down, the cartridge stays concentric, and only needs inside neck reaming and trimming to the correct length. Necking up is problematic as the expander does not keep the neck on-axis with the center of the cartridge, and you have to fire-form the cartridge with a light load to the final dimensions.

When shot in a match grade gun, you can get a 190 grain .30 caliber boat-tail bullet out of the gun in excess of 3200 feet per second. That's varmint caliber speed with a 190 grain bullet.

I used to take my 30-338 out with my 6mm and use it for prarie dogs just for the practice at 300-500 yard target ranges. When the little buggers hunker down behind the dirt mound around their hole, you could shoot through the dirt and surprise them.

The gun recoil is worse than a hot loaded 45-70 - I own both, and the 30-338 needs recoil management to shoot more than about 20 rounds in a single shooting session.

 

[WyomingWhitetail]

Hmm I've been doing some thinking trying to figure out a case that I could use to wild cat the 45-70. So far the closest I've came is the 340 weatherby. My thinking was take the weatherby dies and cut them off until the base diameter matches the 45-70. Per my calculation it seems that that would leave me with only a 1.866 length case and I would like a little longer than that.

 

[RevGeo]

I have had no problem finding good 30-40 brass either from Midway or at gun shows. 100 cases would probably last me for the rest of my life, since anymore almost all of my center fire rifle shooting is done while hunting (or sighting-in for hunting).
Here's what Parker Ackley had to say about his Improved 30-40 back in 1955:

"The Improved 30-40 is one of the best of the 'Improved' cartridges but it has never gained popularity because of the lack of suitable actions. It is a very fine cartridge for the better single-shot actions like the Hi-wall Winchester, Sharps Borchardt or the P-14 Enfield. There is also a number of the old Winchester Model 54's in 30-30 cal. which can easily be converted for the Improved 30-40. Due to the wide rim and relatively strong case it handles high pressures well and loads equalling the standard .300 H&H Magnum have been used for a long time by owners of rifles chambered for the cartridge. Cases are made by fire forming factory loads (or hand loaded equivelents) in the improved chamber." Here's his data:
150 gr bullet - 53gr HiVel #2 3287fps
56gr HiVel #2 3350

180gr bullet 54gr IMR 4350 2740
56gr IMR 4350 2920
50gr IMR 4064 2902

220gr bullet 58gr IMR 4350 2603


Boy, them was the days! I'd love to have a High Wall chambered for this cartridge.
A .338/40 AI with a 225gr bullet and 55-56gr of IMR 4350 would make a most formidable elk cartridge, I should think.

George