.32 ACP pocket revolver

[Bill DeShivs]

Here is an idea that I'm sure would be a money maker for one of the smaller gun manufacturers-
If the "J" frame/Undercover/Mod. 85, etc. was actually scaled down to the 32auto cartridge-grip frame, barrel, cylinder-everything- and was offered in stainless and/or stainless & aluminum construction, sales would be through the roof.
S&W is making revolvers so big that you need a truck to carry them and they are selling. Who wouldn't want a nice little gun you could actually carry conveniently? There are no guns metting this criteria made today.
It could also be chambered in .22 LR.
I know the big bore guys are cringing while reading this, but face it-small caliber guns SELL. And-any gun is better than no gun!
The gun should be conventional, well made, and light weight. A top-break could be just as easily done, but a swing out probably would sell better.
Other than starting a caliber war, what think ye?

 

[Tom2]

Dunno. Maybe I could try having a 32 acp cylinder made for my little 32S&W cal. top break and see how it works? You can get 32 cylinders for the Russian revolver too. Just to test the concept. Smith makes ultra LW J frames for the 22 mag cartridge. Wonder how it would compare to the ACP in ballistics and performance? Bet the penetration is good.

 

[45Marlin carbine]

I've had the same thought. even single-action like the NAA .22's in S/S.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

Tom-
Don't try it. .32 ACP is a lot hotter cartridge than .32 S&W! The .22 mag is too long. The gun would be too big.
45marlin- I think it really needs to be double action to sell well.

 

[Tom2]

Yea I was pretty sure that the ACP is lot higher pressure than the puny 32 smith. Even in smokeless guns. Just a mental exercise. Can't see the utility of a ACP cal. type revolver exept 45 ACP!

 

[couldbeanyone]

If anyone were to make an appropriately tiny 4 or 5 shot 32 acp double action revolver, I would line up to buy at least two of them. It would be a gun I would even consider buying new from S&W with a lock in the side of it. I will not carry, much less pocket carry an automatic, and a j-frame is still a bit big for the times when you can't carry a real gun. Great idea, wish someone would do it.

 

[Hobie]

I though NAA actually had such a design but it didn't sell. Grant Cunningham recommends the the Colt New Pocket in .32 S&W for such chores....

 

[Bill DeShivs]

NAA's design was an ill concieved .32 magnum, single action top-break.
It never made it into production.
The advantage to the .32 ACP is relatively decent power compared to it's short overall length.
This design could put a small maker, like Charter, on the map.

 

[Rimrod]

Putting a .32 auto in a revolver has two drawbacks. The rim is very small for normal extraction from a revolver and the case is short and limits the cartridge to very light bullets. The .32 Long has a larger rim, and is long enough to hold a wide range of bullet weights. The .32 ACP and .32 S&W Long are very similar ballistically.

The gun you are describing is the S&W I frame, in .32 S&W Long ctg.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

The "I" frame was a great little gun, but they don't make them any more.
The gun I'm envisioning has a shorter cylinder and frame than the "I" frame.
It would be much easier to carry with a shorter overall length.
A stainless airweight typewould be perfect.

 

[Justme]

They seem to sell a lot of those little tiny .22lr revolvers, the ones you can use for a belt buckle. Maybe they could scale them up a bit?

 

[Laz]

NAA had a "smallish" .32 H&R Magnum revolver in the works for quite a while but dropped it. It was too big and was single-action. I think it weighed something like 15 ounces. I believe there was supposed to be a small .32 Casull in the works also but don't think it was ever produced. Also single action, I believe. I was disappointed NAA didn't try for one in .32 ACP as it would have allowed a short cylinder, made use of many commercial loads, and would have been arguably "better" than a .22 mag. I remember Davis Derringers some years ago made a quite small derringer chambered in .32 acp. A five shot da revolver in .32 acp would be OK, I think, but perhaps they would have a hard time selling them in a world with Seecamps, NAA autos, and especially Kel-Tecs. .32 acp doesn't have much rim so maybe it wouldn't work in a DA revolver.

 

[BillCA]

Bill,

You're talking bringing back a completely new chassis that's never been configured in their CNC machines, plus trying to chamber a semi-rimmed auto round in a revolver.

Sales of .32 caliber revolvers are pretty sluggish which caused S&W to drop the .32 Long J-Frames in the 70's. Their J's with the .32 Mags were not exactly a spectacular seller either.

This is as close as I could get to what you're talking about;

S&W 432PD, Six-shot .32 H&R Magnum 15oz.

I wouldn't call the .32 H&R a pipsqueak round. It's faster and has twice the energy of the .32ACP with a slightly (30%) heavier bullet. The only downside, for your purposes, is that it's a "long" cartridge.

The only really viable option I see is a new cartridge. Since the .32 H&R, .32 ACP and .32 S&W (Long) are all nominally .312, we make this new cartridge a true .320" with a matching rimmed case to prevent chambering in any old .32 S&W Longs or top breaks. Build it for a pressure of 25,000 to 30,000 psi (slightly higher than .38 +P). I'm thinking a slightly longer, rimmed .32 NAA.

Now we have the .320 DeShivs round with a case length somewhere between 0.7" and 0.85" (For reference, a .38 Long Colt was 0.78" and a .32 Long is 0.93").

But that's a lot of investment for a small caliber gun that may or may not take off. The much simpler idea of a rimmed 9mm cartridge for 9mm revolvers failed and cost Federal some investment so I think you'd have a hard sell.

 

[Cowart]

Another possibility, since we have to create a new frame anyway, would be a 5 shot .30 Mauser revolver, using moon clips. That case is only about 1/3 inches longer than a .32acp, but it is much more powerful. The same gun could be readily made in a 9mm version.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

Semi rimmed autopistol cartridges have been chambered in revolvers since around 1900.

I agree that a new "DeShivs" round would be the best solution, but then you have to get ammunition companies involved. In the 1970s there were far fewer citizens carrying guns than today.
The 432 is a nice gun, but it's the same size as any other "J" frame. The gun I envision is 2/3 that size and slimmer, and could be chambered in .22 LR as well.

The 9mm Federal idea was a good one, and had Charter shortened the frame of the gun to 9mm length instead of .38 Spl., the gun may have sold better.

 

[Jim Watson]

You could prototype the .32 BDS easily, if not cheaply.
Procure a S&W .32 New Departure "Lemonsqueezer". I think this is about as small a revolver as can be handled normally and no point in shrinking it down any more. Have the custom gunsmith/precision machinist of your choice make a .32 ACP cylinder and top latch out of high strength steel. The frame ought to last long enough for testing and demonstration to Interested Parties. If the semirimmed .32 ACP is not extracted reliably, stamp out some little bitty moon clips... and show the I.P. a 547 with the idea of scaling the trick extractor down.

 

[NCHornet]

I've got my 32acp pocket pistol, it is a NAA Guardian and I love it!!Sorry Bill I know this wasn't what you had in mind, but if you want a small gun is this caliber I highly recommend the G32.

 

[PathTreker]

Bill, the .32 acp is a great idea.
The folks on the S&W forum have similar idea's and if you check out the link there is an interesting pic someone made (probably photoshop) of what a nice small shrouded hammer mini .32 would look like. The only thing I would change about it is the grip; it needs to be smaller. In the pic the grip looks like one from a J-frame and not an I-frame.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/510103904/m/9771053342

What the naysayers need to realize is that sluggish sales of 32's in the past may not equate to sluggish sales today. The reason: CHL is taking off. People are looking high and low for interesting solutions. There is a good reason Kel-tec, NAA, and Seecamp are selling so many guns in the so called "inadequate" .32 and .380 calibers. It's because they are small and light and for most buyers they are good enough. And a .32 acp revolver, if light enough, would sell for the exact same reason, but probably in higher volumes because it will be even easier for the casual gun owner to operate.

I have even suggested on another forum that the .32 long could be resurrected as a .32 long +p loading. Same exact dimensions. Maybe give it a new name to give someone pause to put it in an older gun. Sure some people will still run it through an older gun just like some people are going to run redlights and drive without a seatbelt. There are limits to designing around the ignorant.

I think similar improvements could be made to the old .38 S&W loading to get it neck and neck with the performance of the .380 auto cartridge.

Even without a new cartridge design, a .32acp revolver would sell.

 

[Rimrod]

Here are a J frame, an I frame and a H&R Safety Hammer.

The H&Rs cylinder is a 5 shot .32 S&W and would be about the length of a .32ACP but would be bigger around, especially if you develope a new higher pressure round.

The hinged frame on the H&R makes it as long as the I frames so you might want to stick with the swing out cylinder.

I like the idea of the new case but I would stick with the .312 diameter. With all the bullets and moulds already in existance I think it would be much better for gaining public acceptance.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

Nchornet-
I have a NAA Guardian .32, and a Beretta Tomcat, and 3 Keltec P32s, and 2 K/T P3ATs, and darned near every other pocket pistol made.
I was giving my stepdaughter a quick rundown on carrying/using a gun. She got a new part time job, and I wanted her to carry there (legal in Tenn.). She can shoot, but has had little interest in guns. We settled on the Tomcat- as she must carry it unloaded to/from work. Then I thought about the little revolver. Except for the macho types that buy their loved ones snubby .44 magnums that get left at home, an awful lot of people would buy the little revolver for this reason only. Others would buy it just because it would be cute. The .22 version would be a nice plinker/tackle box gun.
The New Departure is about the size I envision.