308 Winchester

[Red_Eagle]

I have a Ruger 77 MK. II std in 308. I free floated the barrel and glass bedded the action. I managed to get 1 1/4" groups with 150 gr Speer Hot cors. I'm working with Hornady 150gr BTSPs now. I've tried 44.5 grs of varget and Fed 210GM primers (from Hdy 6th ed.) and got 1 1/2" groups. I'm trying to shrink that down to 1 1/4", 1" preferably. For primers I have a lot of Federal 210 gold match and winchester large rifle. Powders on hand for this size case include Varget, H-335, BL-C(2), Benchmark, RL-15, IMR-4064, 748, and 760. I also have some 165gr Hornady BTSPs if anyone thinks that would help. I shot some 180gr loads that were pretty accurate, but a little punishing.
I just need a little advice on primer and powder combos.

 

[azredhawk44]

I shoot the 165 BTSP hornady to 1.5MOA out of a 18" M1A Scout rifle; almost identical to my results with the hornady 168gr BTHP match bullet.

My rifle favors Reloder15 and IMR4895 out of everything I've tested so far (H335, IMR4064, Varget), but I am limited by my gas system whereas your bolt action gives you more leniency in burn rate.

In general, I would consider a longer bullet a better shooter. Look into shooting those Hornady 165's with 42.0gr IMR4895, OAL 2.775, no crimp. I use CCI large rifle primers though. Maybe cut 0.5-1.0gr from the powder if you are using Fed Match primers?

 

[hpg]

Try some WW 748, I've used it for years and like it very well................hpg

 

[T. O'Heir]

Work up a load using the 165's, the regular large rifle primers and IMR4064. Don't just pick a load.
Beginning with the starting load, load 5 rounds only. Go up by half a grain of powder, loading 5 of each keeping them separate until you get to the max load in your manual.
Then go shooting. Shoot at 100 yards, for group only, slowly and deliberately off a bench.
Change targets between strings of 5 and allow time for the barrel to cool.
When you find the best group, sight in 4" high at 100. That'll put you on target out to about 300 yards with no hold over.

 

[Red_Eagle]

I've put togather a few test loads to take out tomarrow. All 150gr loads. Hornady SPBT with Benchmark and fed 210Ms. And Nosler ballistic tips with H-335 and fed 210Ms. I also have some brass primed with remington 9 1/2s. I was wanting to use WW-748 and BL-C(2) with them, but I'm a little concerned they'll have trouble getting consistant burn with 9 1/2s with the temp at about 20 degrees here.

 

[Splat!!]

Have you ever tried a factory load in this rifle??

Are those your 100 yard groups? If so I think you have other problems...

 

[Red_Eagle]

It grouped 1 1/2" with Igman factory loads. This ruger has a very light barrel. I think with this contour 1 1/4" may be the best I ever get. After 2 loads it's hard to say. All groups were shot at 100yds.

 

[rrp]

308 round

I've had very consistant sub moa groups with my Rem 700 26" barrel shooting hornady 168 gr match bthp using 43 gr of Varget.

 

[crowbeaner]

Red Eagle; are you uniforming the flash holes and the primer pockets? Those 2 steps help the ignition and primer strike to be the same shot to shot. If you are, try the Sierra 150 flatbase Pro Hunter and 46.5 of WW 748. The RP 9 1/2 primers are milder than some but I haven't had any ignition problems so far and I'm not that far from you. WW 748 is a little temperature sensitive and hot temps can raise the fps. some but the ballistic properties with match prepped brass make it shoot real well in my guns. If you shoot 50.0 of WW 760 you can really get some guns to shoot well; my old M700 loved it. H380 works well also.

 

[Red_Eagle]

I uniformed about half of them. I haven't really worked up too many loads with it. I got the 30-06 and 270 working right finally. Both grouping around an inch. Now I'm finally getting serious about the 308 and the 30-30. I got a bunch of test loads ready for both of them. For the 308 I'm gonna try 748, BL-C(2), H335, and Benchmark. Using the Hornady 150gr SP-BT with all, except the H335. I'm using Nosler Ballistic tips with those.

 

[azredhawk44]

I uniformed about half of them.

Then about half of them will be uniform.

Doesn't do any good at all to deliberately make your brass DIFFERENT than other pieces.

Better to load 20 rounds to high quality than 100 rounds for tin can blasting. At least if you're shooting for accuracy and not for tin cans.

 

[Red_Eagle]

Does flash hole uniforming really make that much difference in a sporter?

 

[mag41vance]

If you want to stay with the 150 gr heads, I have excellent accuracy and results with 46.3 gr Varget in a R-P case and WLR primers.

 

[crowbeaner]

Absolutely. Every step you take to make your ammo the same shot-to-shot is that much less of a factor especially in a sporter weight barrel. Barrels vibrate on a sine wave graph when fired. The more uniform the sine wave, the more accurate you rifle will be, especially with a light barrel. Bull barrels still vibrate, but the loops on the wave are smaller(closer to the parallel). Bull barrels also take longer to heat up and distort than a light one. Heating will definitely make your shot string "walk". As your barrel heats the POI will change, and you have to let the barrel cool to maintain the same POA and POI. For maximum accuracy uniform the flash holes and the primer pockets. These 2 steps will literally cut inches off the groups of certain rifles. You only have to do this once in the life of the case, and then you have the most accurate brass you can get. Even primo brands like Lapua, Norma, and Nosler benefit from this although the amount of brass that gets removed can be much less. If you spend good money on components, wouldn't you like to get the most performance for your shooting buck? I certainly do, and I don't have any Hart barrels in my rack right now. CB.

 

[Big Caliber]

If you're not deadset on your brass & bullets, might I suggest looking into Lupua brass and/or Sierra or Berger bullets? They work for me w/ WLR or Fed 210m primers and Varget or IMR 4064 powder. Bullets were 155-190 grainers. Used IMR 4831 w/ the heavy bullets = 0.5moa. Happy loading.

 

[Red_Eagle]

I went though all my brass with the Lyman tool. The only stuff that didnt get done was the stuff thats already loaded. If the test loads I've put togather dont give the results I want, I'm gonna swithch bullets. My 270 went from 3" to 1" by swithing from Hornady spire points to Sierra Game Kings.

 

[crowbeaner]

My .222 isn't real picky about bullet mfg. but it DOES like uniformed brass. As long as the bullets aren't made by Winchester, it generally shoots under an inch with anything. Your .308 is probably a bit more picky; some rifles only shoot well with a certain bullet or powder/bullet combo. I use Sierra MKs for long range sniping because they group really well in several loads. At 300 yards the .222 is beginning to run out of gas, and hits beyond 350 are beginning to become chancy. You can alternate between 165 and 168 grain Sierras without major adjustments to your scope; if the Sierras group well, shoot'em. CB.

 

[Red_Eagle]

I finally made it to the range today. The Benchmark loads were a bust, but I was expecting that.Ran into a problem with my H-335, 748 and BL-C(2) loads. The way I worked up the loads, was I started with the start load, then made 1 cartridge going up 1 grain until I was 1/2gr below listed max. Then made 6 rounds to fire groups. None of my max loads would chamber easily. The brass was fire formed, neck sized federal. I'm going to switch to once fired Igman and work the load up again with IMR 4064, 748 and BL-C(2). With the ball powders I was also going to switch to a CCI 250 mag primer, move the start loads back 1 grain and the max load back 1 1/2 grs.

 

[Dlr8]

Here is what I would do .... first off, I would load up some mild loads some that you have already tested.... then I would make sure my gun is clean, check the scope mounts, make sure nothing is loose.. Then I would grab a buddy and go to the range ... I would fire a set myself... if they didn't group I would let someone else shoot... and compare groups. If nothing else this eliminates human error..work with a clean barrel between loads. I also think you are changing waaaaay tooooooo much stuff at one time ... if you uniform the primer pockets .. change powders, change bullets ect how are you going to know what the problem is when you find it.. If uniforming the primer pockets take you from 1 1/2" groups to the magic 1/2" groups would be something short of a miracle.. Plus IMO you are moving your powder charge in too big of increments. I would suggest 1/2 gr. at the max, I would forget fireforming .. its for tweaking a load not finding one.. I know its easier on brass but by the time you find a load its time to FL size and you lose the load you found.. It is very rare that a .308 shoots as bad as what you have at 100yds.. with any round. Keep it simple change one thing at a time. let someone else do some of the shooting.. Are you seperating your brass according to case capacity, brass will sometimes cause problems.

Good Luck
Dave

 

[L Puckett]

Red_Eagle,

As several have suggested, you need to "work up" a load. This is what precision reloading is all about, each rifle will like a certain speed for a given bullet. Hence you gain improved accuracy over factory ammo.

If your using Varget and a 165 grn round, work them up, I prefer using "4 tenths" of a grain steps in this case size. You should hit a harmonic node between 42.8 and 43.5 grns of Varget.

Good luck and good shooting,
LP