Come and take it.
New member
Which is more lethal?
.308 soft point or 12 guage foster slug
- Thread starter Come and take it.
- Start date
Depends on what you are shooting and the manufacturer of the 308 bullet. With the best loads I'd take the 308 every time. Now with some of the better slugs, on really large game I might feel different. While the slugs make a large diameter hole, the old school Foster slugs are soft and don't give very deep penetration.
Most folks forget that until the latter part of the 19th century, all game was killed with a lead bullet, often a patched lead ball traveling at about 1300 fps. That was state of the art for many centuries. With the invention of the cupronickel jacket at the beginning of the 20th century, we began using jacket bullets. Before then, not so much.
A 12 gauge slug will take any game in the world if you get close enough and put your slug in the correct spot. With the invention of the paradox choke and rifled barrels, the shotgun slug became much more accurate and effective.
A 12 gauge slug will take any game in the world if you get close enough and put your slug in the correct spot. With the invention of the paradox choke and rifled barrels, the shotgun slug became much more accurate and effective.
Kreyzhorse
New member
They are different rounds and typically used in different situations. Both have their pros and cons when discussed in relation to each other.
With that said, I'd be hard pressed to say that one is more lethal than the other. With both, shot placement is king. You have to do your job before any bullet can do its job.
With that said, I'd be hard pressed to say that one is more lethal than the other. With both, shot placement is king. You have to do your job before any bullet can do its job.
L_Killkenny
New member
You can tell most of these post are not from folk who live in a shotgun only state. Shot placement being equal a SP .308 will do far more damage than a FOSTER slug. In reality foster slugs punch a neat round whole and disturb very little of the surrounding tissue. Centerfires on the other, depending on bullet construction of coarse, transmit wholesale shock and damage to anything even close. Every year one or more hunters get shot in the chest with foster slugs while deer hunting here in Iowa. A good percentage of them make it (i.e. most). The results would not be even close if hit with a centerfire rifle using proper bullets.
math teacher
New member
In the area where I bowhunt Roosevelt elk, shotguns are required during modern firearms season. The results are not always pretty. Every one of those hunters would take a 308 over their shotgun if they had a choice. Never the less they do manage to get the job done with shotguns most of the time if the range is short enough.
If you use a "real" slug, the .308 is way less gun, way less "lethal." Yes, the foster slugs are soft but a Dixie DGS or Brenneke Black Magic will kill anything on earth, the .308, not so much. The Linebaugh Bone Box testing shows that a hard cast slug will out out-perform a .375 H&H, let alone a .308. Even with a lesser slug, the 385 grain Winchester Gold Partition, you are far beyond any .308:
Technical Information •Gauge/Bore: 12
•Shell Length: 3"
•Slug Type: Partition Gold Sabot
•Slug Weight: 385 Grain
Ballistics Information:
•Muzzle Velocity: 2000 fps
•Muzzle Energy: 3419 ft. lbs
Technical Information •Gauge/Bore: 12
•Shell Length: 3"
•Slug Type: Partition Gold Sabot
•Slug Weight: 385 Grain
Ballistics Information:
•Muzzle Velocity: 2000 fps
•Muzzle Energy: 3419 ft. lbs
kilimanjaro
New member
They are both equally lethal. Question is, what are you shooting at, how far, and what can happen if you don't hit the vitals?
WDM Bell, also known as Kilimanjaro Bell used a 7X57 to literally kill hundreds of elephant. In his later years was known to have said he would have prefered the 308 had it been available in his day.
The 308 is still one of the favortie rifles of elephant poachers in Africa. The FAL's are quite common there and with FMJ military rounds work well enough.
I submit to you the if you hit the skull of an elephant with a 12ga slug, it will stop. Ol' Karamojo was hitting the eye socket and other various holes in the skull. This is usually the goal even with the big magnums, though they do have the power to penetrate.
I won't say that a 12ga CAN'T do it, but I don't think so on a regular basis.
Say, just how many elephant was the OP planning on hunting with the 12ga or .308?
I won't say that a 12ga CAN'T do it, but I don't think so on a regular basis.
Say, just how many elephant was the OP planning on hunting with the 12ga or .308?
I live in a state that requires shotgun/pistol/muzzle loader only in some counties for deer hunting during gun season. I also happen to live in one of those counties.
When it comes to hunting deer with a long gun though I'll go for my .308 any day over my shotgun. I do have a rifled barrel for my 12ga. and when I do hunt with the shotgun I use that and saboted brenneke style slugs. With a cantilever mounted scope I am confident of reliably hitting vitals out to 75 yards - that's about a 3" group at 75 yards. Some people will say they can shoot an inch at 100+ yards with their slug gun (my neighbor) but I've yet to see it actually done.
With my .308 (DPMS LR308) I can easily shoot under an inch at 100 yards and even out to 200 yards I can shoot 1" with good ammo. With your average off the shelf commercial BTSP ammo I get about 2" at 200 yards off a bench. Offhand I get about 3" at 200 yards. With MY rifle there's a guy at the range that shoots often who can pick off soda cans at 300 yards. Ok so he can do so with his rifle too but see I can't consistently do that with my rifle while he can. I guess that means I just have to practice and shoot more
Anyway I wouldn't even consider taking a shot at a soda can with a shotgun out past 75 yards.
In regards to hunting medium to large game with a shotgun I'd only do it if I HAD to. Not because it lacks sufficient killing power but because it lacks the range I'd like to have in order to make it a truly versatile gun for hunting. If I have a close shot I'd gladly take it. I want to be able to know though that if I had to take a longer shot I'd be able to take it too.
As to which is most lethal - umm well that'd be hard to decide. Up close the velocity of the .308 in a heavy SP (like a 180 grain) will cause an amazing amount of damage in soft tissue and will also penetrate the skulls of most animals too. It actually causes MORE damage than a 12ga. foster slug because of the sheer velocity and capacity to expand and penetrate at close ranges (out to 100 yards). While the 12ga. slug will penetrate and a foster slug has more of a tendency to expand the slug typically does not actually do more damage than a .308 out to 75 yards... in fact from what I've seen they both do about the same amount of damage at those distances. A brenneke style saboted slug (what I would shoot) doesn't deform very much at all at 75 yards. In fact the last time I shot a deer with my shotgun (about a 50 yard shot) it made a pretty nice clean hole all the way through the deer. It did tumble a bit - it went in with a clean circular hole and came out with a more rectangular exit hole but the exit hole itself was not much larger than the entry hole. The deer ran for about 75 yards and died. I rarely hunt deer with a shotgun but that was only two years ago during the antlerless deer season.
I've also shot more than a few deer at 75 or less yards with a .308. At 50 or so yards I shoot through with a .308 however the exit hole is considerably larger than the entry hole. The bullet had also tumbled and yawed - the entry hole was just above the heart and at a downward angle. The exit wound was just below the shoulder blade on the other side and was about the size of my hand - the bullet had hit a rib and taken a chunk of the rib out with it. This was with a 180 grain soft point. The deer fell where it stood. I shot a deer at 75 yards in the neck and the entry wound was .30 cal but the exit wound was huge - I'd say a couple of inches across. It had hit and in the short distance it traveled managed to take out with it arteries and wind pipe. That deer fell and died where it stood, sending up arterial blood spray for a few seconds after it fell.
When it comes to hunting deer with a long gun though I'll go for my .308 any day over my shotgun. I do have a rifled barrel for my 12ga. and when I do hunt with the shotgun I use that and saboted brenneke style slugs. With a cantilever mounted scope I am confident of reliably hitting vitals out to 75 yards - that's about a 3" group at 75 yards. Some people will say they can shoot an inch at 100+ yards with their slug gun (my neighbor) but I've yet to see it actually done.
With my .308 (DPMS LR308) I can easily shoot under an inch at 100 yards and even out to 200 yards I can shoot 1" with good ammo. With your average off the shelf commercial BTSP ammo I get about 2" at 200 yards off a bench. Offhand I get about 3" at 200 yards. With MY rifle there's a guy at the range that shoots often who can pick off soda cans at 300 yards. Ok so he can do so with his rifle too but see I can't consistently do that with my rifle while he can. I guess that means I just have to practice and shoot more
Anyway I wouldn't even consider taking a shot at a soda can with a shotgun out past 75 yards.
In regards to hunting medium to large game with a shotgun I'd only do it if I HAD to. Not because it lacks sufficient killing power but because it lacks the range I'd like to have in order to make it a truly versatile gun for hunting. If I have a close shot I'd gladly take it. I want to be able to know though that if I had to take a longer shot I'd be able to take it too.
As to which is most lethal - umm well that'd be hard to decide. Up close the velocity of the .308 in a heavy SP (like a 180 grain) will cause an amazing amount of damage in soft tissue and will also penetrate the skulls of most animals too. It actually causes MORE damage than a 12ga. foster slug because of the sheer velocity and capacity to expand and penetrate at close ranges (out to 100 yards). While the 12ga. slug will penetrate and a foster slug has more of a tendency to expand the slug typically does not actually do more damage than a .308 out to 75 yards... in fact from what I've seen they both do about the same amount of damage at those distances. A brenneke style saboted slug (what I would shoot) doesn't deform very much at all at 75 yards. In fact the last time I shot a deer with my shotgun (about a 50 yard shot) it made a pretty nice clean hole all the way through the deer. It did tumble a bit - it went in with a clean circular hole and came out with a more rectangular exit hole but the exit hole itself was not much larger than the entry hole. The deer ran for about 75 yards and died. I rarely hunt deer with a shotgun but that was only two years ago during the antlerless deer season.
I've also shot more than a few deer at 75 or less yards with a .308. At 50 or so yards I shoot through with a .308 however the exit hole is considerably larger than the entry hole. The bullet had also tumbled and yawed - the entry hole was just above the heart and at a downward angle. The exit wound was just below the shoulder blade on the other side and was about the size of my hand - the bullet had hit a rib and taken a chunk of the rib out with it. This was with a 180 grain soft point. The deer fell where it stood. I shot a deer at 75 yards in the neck and the entry wound was .30 cal but the exit wound was huge - I'd say a couple of inches across. It had hit and in the short distance it traveled managed to take out with it arteries and wind pipe. That deer fell and died where it stood, sending up arterial blood spray for a few seconds after it fell.
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The answer depends on bullets in the .308 and distance in the 12 gauge. I shoot only standard 12 gauge slugs so my experience with the other slugs is limited to what I read.
Ay 50 yards, I can think of few firearms that are as devastating as the 12 gauge slug. At longer ranges, they get marginal in accuracy. If you can hit the target at 200 yards, it's going to hurt!
At 50 yards, the .308 is just getting warmed up! Having shot them for years at 200 and 600 yards, the accuracy edge is with the .308. I shoot 168 grain Sierra Match Kings which are great for accuracy but terrible for hunting as they aren't designed for expansion. Selection of a proper hunting bullet is essential.
I've been in the "pits" in many matches when those big .30 calibers sail in from 600 yards. They hit the berm behind us with a loud "WHUMP!". There's still a lot of energy in a .308 at 600 yards. With the correct bullet, they are still plenty lethal and very accurate. The .308 definitely has the edge there.
Flash
Ay 50 yards, I can think of few firearms that are as devastating as the 12 gauge slug. At longer ranges, they get marginal in accuracy. If you can hit the target at 200 yards, it's going to hurt!
At 50 yards, the .308 is just getting warmed up! Having shot them for years at 200 and 600 yards, the accuracy edge is with the .308. I shoot 168 grain Sierra Match Kings which are great for accuracy but terrible for hunting as they aren't designed for expansion. Selection of a proper hunting bullet is essential.
I've been in the "pits" in many matches when those big .30 calibers sail in from 600 yards. They hit the berm behind us with a loud "WHUMP!". There's still a lot of energy in a .308 at 600 yards. With the correct bullet, they are still plenty lethal and very accurate. The .308 definitely has the edge there.
Flash
sc928porsche
New member
Firing a slug is a bit like firing a mortar round. Tremendous energy and limited distance. If you have fired very many, you will actually be able to see the slug travel to the target at 100 yds.
Anything the 12ga slug in ANY form can do, the .308 can do better.
Foot pounds of energy? Check.
Trajectory? Check.
Range? Check.
Actual tissue damage? Check.
Penetration? Check.
Accuracy? Check
RECOIL? ....
RECOIL? ....
RECOIL? ....
Okay, the 12ga DOES have more of something: RECOIL!
Foot pounds of energy? Check.
Trajectory? Check.
Range? Check.
Actual tissue damage? Check.
Penetration? Check.
Accuracy? Check
RECOIL? ....
RECOIL? ....
RECOIL? ....
Okay, the 12ga DOES have more of something: RECOIL!