.308 case not fitting?

[Oath Keeper]

I've been reloading for a bit (6 years) and this is a new issue for me.

I have some Winchester .308 that have gone through a few firings and I was going to retire them. I had some '93 LC Match brass fall on my lap and I was excited. When I resized it I had to put extra line on it. It was tough as all Hell. When I went to shootpt it my bolt didn't want to close. I had to force it shut. I fired anyway and compared the case it the Sami spec and it was spot on. I pulled a bullet and measured the cases and the shoulder isn't bumped back enough. I pulled all the projectiles and tried to resize it and I couldn't get the shoulder back enough. Whenever I resize any other brass it fits into my case gauge fine. What an I missing with this brass?

I've used RCBS, Hornady and Lee dies on it. All three hours through the full range with little to no effort.

 

[30Cal]

Case gage? A ding on the rim will keep them from dropping in even if they're sized correctly.

 

[3kgt2nv]

it could be his chamber was out of spec so the case is garbage. very common if it was shot in an old mil surp rife.

could also be if it was military lr ammo in 308 the case specs could be slightly different.

the only time I had an issue like you described is when I formed some 308 from 306 for the thicker case walls for 1000yrd bench rest shooting

 

[condor bravo]

You seem to be saying that the problem is that the sizing dies will not set the shoulders back as needed for proper sizing and chambering. The obvious question is: are the sizing dies screwed down all the way to contact the shell holder and even with some "cam-over" from the press? If the answer is yes, the problem still exists even after a cam-over, if the problem were mine I would not hesitate in grinding some metal off the mouth of the die. Best of course to do that with a grinding wheel (like one that will connect to an electric drill); I have done exactly that on a few sizing dies which of course allows the die to be screwed down farther to be able to contact the shoulder and solve the problem. That assumes that the die is not a carbide insert variety.

The sizing of the LC brass due to difference in wall thickness from the Winchesters is probably the reason for the sizing difference difficulties.

 

[4runnerman]

If die is set correct as post above ask's. Next time try to resize twice. Run the case through the die,raise handle all the way and then run it down a second time.
I need to ask. Does the case fit in chamber good till the last few MM's. You might need to get a Small Base sizing die to use this brass. It wold be a one time sizing and then back to your normal sizing die again.
Bolt closing hard does not always mean shoulder is problem. Measure the base of case as compared to cases that fit easy. Remember- a sizing die does not size all the way down to the base. That is where the SB sizing die comes in.

 

[Ifishsum]

Work hardened? Hard to imagine three different dies being out of spec, especially if they work fine with other brass. Do you know for certain how many loadings that brass has seen? Might be worth a try annealing a couple pieces and seeing if that makes a difference.

 

[jepp2]

You can also put a feeler's gage under the case head in the shell holder to set the shoulder back further. This will help you determine how much needs to be removed from the top of the shell holder. Dies are very hard. Shell holders not so much.

 

[3kgt2nv]

If length, neck length, and case diameter is all to spec and the brass doesnt chamber in that gun try it in a different rifle. It could be just the gun doesnt like it.

As a last resort check the rim thickness. It could be holding the extractor out a bit and you forcing it into battery might be the extractor seating properly

 

[stubbicatt]

Could be out of spec shell holder. I've had that problem before. Changed shell holders and no more issues.

 

[dahermit]

Work hardened?

Exactly. The cases "fell into his lap", unknown number of firings, re-sizings. Brass work hardens and gets springy...springs back after sizing.

Anneal only if you know how. The cases can be ruined if not properly done. If you do not know how to anneal without ruining the cases, buy new cases.

 

[AllenJ]

What is the history of LC brass, is it new or has it been fired? Also, I don't understand what you mean when you say "I had to put extra line on it".

 

[William T. Watts]

The cases could have been fired in a machine gun, I'm assuming the cases still have the crimped in primer which would indicate once fired only! William

 

[mehavey]

I had some '93 LC Match brass fall on my lap and I was excited.
When I resized it I had to put extra line on it. It was tough as all Hell.

1. Cases were fired in oversize chamber. Resizing req'd extra force and therefore the press "sprung" enough to leave the cases not-quite-fully-resized.

2. SOLUTION: Small-base size them once to get them back into spec, then resize normally after that.
(1/8-turn Cam-over if/as req'd even then in a tight chamber)

3. CRITICAL: WHAT LUBE are you using ?

 

[F. Guffey]

When I resized it I had to put extra line on it. It was tough as all Hell. When I went to shootpt it my bolt didn't want to close.

Not sure how that happens, I raise the ram, size the case then lower the ram. No surprises like a round failing to chamber after sizing. When I full length size a case the shell holder stops at the bottom of the die. If the shell holder contacts the bottom of the die there is no room for a case to protrude from the die.

Case protruding from the Die: Case head protrusion can be measured with a feeler gage, case head protrusion can be measured with a depth micrometer. I have cases that have more resistance to sizing than my press can overcome. When that happens the top of my press spreads from the bottom of the press.

I have small base dies, I have a few dies that are mistakes, I have dies that belong to reloaders that ground the bottom of the die because of being misinformed. If I have a case that whips my press I want to know "BY HOW MUCH?". Then there is the chamber, I have short chambers, I form cases for short chambers with nothing more than a feeler gage, and the press, die and shell holder and case lube.

Then there is lube.

 

[T. O'Heir]

A small base sizing die will size the case body a few thou more. That's it. Rarely required for .308.
"...unknown number of firings, re-sizings..." This is the issue. Range brass, regardless of its maker, is suspect at best.
I suspect you need to anneal the cases. But check the lengths first.
It's not the dies or the shell holder. As mentioned, 3 different makes will not be out of spec. Very much doubt Match brass ever came near an MG either.

 

[William T. Watts]

What other weapon does the military have that fires the .308 round except a machine gun? The only thing that comes to mind is a bolt gun for sniper use in .308, I don't recall seeing match ammunition when I was in the military. It is puzzling though.. William

 

[4runnerman]

T O'Heir- bases being to big are not all the rare at all.Depending on the chamber they were fired in and his chamber it is a real problem. I have had to buy 2 SB sizing dies already. One for the 6MMBR and the other for the 308. If the brass has been resized in 3 die set' and still the bolt closes hard. I would venture to say a SB sizing die is required for sure. He can smoke the case and see where it is hitting very easy. With the info we have it is hard to pin it down on any one certain issue. If he is sizing other brass and they fit easy-I highly doubt it is a annealing the case issue going on. Spring back happens, but not to the extreame he is having. Yes as you said-A SB die sizes only a few thosands more. In my case it was 2 thousands difference. My old 6 BR barrel was
.472. My new barrel is .470. Also-a SB die does not really size smalller-It sizes farther down the case toward the base than a reg die does. Issue that happens-Bolt closes almost all the way,Bolt closes hard due to 2 thousands to big base being cramed into chamber. You can cut the 308 case to 1 inch long and the bolt is still going to close hard. Now you can keep firing those cases and after 4 or so firings they will start to chamber easy. It does not hurt the rifle in any way at all. It's just a pain in the xxx to do. One wants the shoulder bumped NO more 2 thousands back from fired formed.

To the OP- If the base is the problem and I say if. It is a good indication that they are not once fired, but have been reloaded a few times. Most times ( not always, depending on chamber again) It will take 2 or more firings to expand base.

 

[F. Guffey]

I have small base dies, I do not use them, but, JIC. Then there is the shell holder, the shell holder holds the case off meaning the deck height of the shell holder prevents the head/base of the case from being sized. I also have dies that were mistakes, they are not full length sizing dies, they are not small base dies, they are smaller in diameter than small base dies. Out of the box they are stamped F.L. sizer, the box is labeled F.L.. These dies will keep a reloader busy removing stuck cases. We are not talking about machine gun fired cases, we are not talking about military surplus cases.

Then there is case head thickness, I have cases with .200" thick case heads from the top of the cup to the case head, I also have case heads that are .260"+ thick when measured the same way. many reloader that purchased the RCBS military crimp swage bent and wadded up the anvil/rods because they assumed case head thickness was the same for all cases.

Something no one else does: When measuring the case head diameter of a case I turn the case over and place the case head in to the die without the primer punch/sizer ball assemble. I expect the case head to fit the opening of the die. If it doesn't I know I am going to have one difficult time sizing that case.

F. Guffey

 

[mikld]

Whenever there is a fit problem, measure! Measure a Winchester case after sizing. Measure a once fired factory case after sizing. Measure your LC case after sizing. Use a micrometer and measure a few places along the case body/neck. Without real facts/dimensions, it's all a WAG...

What is "extra line"?

 

[F. Guffey]

Whenever there is a fit problem, measure!

Measure the case before firing, try to figure a way to measure the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face before firing, sizing etc.

Once in my life: I was purchasing/looking for parts at a gun store. A proud owner of a very fine rifle asked to have the head space checked. The smith/owner said he could not measure the head space because he did not have a head space gage for that chamber and the proud owner left. I did not get involved. After the owner of the very fine rifle left I told the smith/owner of the parts store I could measure the length of a chamber on any chamber without a head space gage. AND? He asked "HOW?" That was once in my life.

F. Guffey