.303 British.........enlighten me, please.!

[WOLF]

If you can, could someone give me a run down on this caliber. Perhaps a modern equivalant.

Gibbs, has a new conversion rifle called the QUEST Extreme Carbine.
It is a cut down,converted,electroless knickle refinished carbine rifle.

I am thinking about picking one up for fun and a nice truck gun....but don't know much about the .303.

Thanks WOLF


The rifle can be seen in NEW advertisements in firearm magazines....and also at www.gibbsrifle.com

 

[Rusty S]

W. D. M. "Karamoja" Bell used a 7x57 mauser with 175 grain ball to kill hundreds of elephants.

The 303 isn't a 308, but it's close enough to the 7x57 and the 30-40 Krag to do bout anything you need done.

Frank C. Barnes, Ctgs of World, 8th ed.--->

303 = 180 gr. at 2500 fps for 2500 fpe.
30-40 = 180 gr. at 2500 fps for 2500 fpe.
7x57 = 175 gr. at 2500 fps for 2450 fpe.
308 = 180 gr. at 2600 fps for 2700 fpe.
30-06 = 180 gr. at 2700 fps for 2900 fpe.
--------------------------------------
30-30 = 170 gr. at 2200 fps for 1850 fpe.
7.62x39 = 122 gr. at 2350 for 1500 fpe.
30 M1 Carbine = 110 gr. at 1975 fps for 950 fpe.
--------------------------------------
In other words, the 303 is a full battle rifle cartridge, rather than intermediate powered assault rifle cartridge. Figure energy of approx. 85%+ of 30-06 & 90%+ of 308

[This message has been edited by Rusty S (edited January 03, 2000).]

 

[WOLF]

Rusty,

Exactly what I was looking for.
Thank you ever so much for taking the time to post it so susinctly.
WOLF

 

[Jaeger]

Don't forget Hornady's new light magnum ammo. It pushes a 150 gr. JSP at about 2800 FPS making the 303 more like a 30/06! You can duplicate these velocities by hanloading. If you are interested in a great website dealing with the 303 cartridge and with tons of loading data give me an email and I'll send it to you.
The 303 remains one of the 10 most popular rifle cartridges in the US. Many manufacturers are starting to load match ammo for it. (including Sierra!! 174gr matchking)

I think Rusty will confirm this, if you buy a 303 you should really get a good khukuri knife to go with it!

I saw that new rifle being offered by Gibbs. If you get one you MUST do a post about it.

Mike

 

[Rusty S]

Mike, I never get one of ANYTHING! ( Except for one wife - she's in the Holland and Holland, Purdey, Rolls-Royce class ). Well, unless it's a one of a kind or there's just one available.

For the price, I'd rather have two total factory rework no. 4 mark 1's than one fancy one. One for the truck, one for the car, one for the office...

 

[Bud Helms]

Wolf,

Get a copy of Shooting Times, June 1999.

Good article on the .303 Brit starting on Page 52.

Sensop

 

[WOLF]

Thanks for all your help.
I probably will have my FFL/shop order one of the new Gibbs rifles.
I am intrigued by the rework...the knickle finish, 10 shot magazine...nice Truck gun......etc.

Being a lefty I don't know how I will take to the right handed bolt gun.
But will let you guys know how I like it.

Ammo doesn't apear to be cheap, soit won't be a plincker.

And I may blow my wad...at the upcoming Gun shows in my area or on the Y2K RE-Sales if they materialise.

A second job for a couple of months wouldn't hurt...but then I would not have time to shoot.

I remain your Humble servant, WOLF

 

[artech]

I have one of the Gibbs #4 Tanker carbines and just love it. It's a great little shooter and one of my favorite fun guns. The 303 is a great cartridge and surplus ammo is pretty cheap to plink with. Century Arms has good deals on it from time to time. Hope this helps.

------------------
With my shield or on it...

 

[Jaeger]

Wolf, do youself a favor and get a copy of Shotgun News. You can always get good deals on 303 ammo (try the Greek ammo. It's noncorrosive, brass cased and reloadable. about 500 rnds. for $80) You can also get any accessory you want for you rifle.

If your rifle comes through with the nonadjustable 2 aperature rear sight ditch it and get a good milled adjustable rear sight. They are under $20 and available from many different sources. (Springfield Sporters is the cheapest that I've found but Gun Parts isn't much more) It is a combination of a fixed ghost ring battle sight and a click adjustable long range peep sight. This sight is one of the best features of the Enfield rifles. IMHO

I also spoke with Bo Wallace, the gunsmith for Ashley Outdoors, the other week. He is building me a scout rifle off of a (previously sporterized, NOT by me!!) #5 Mk1 Jungle Carbine. He said that they are using my rifle to work up one of their scout kits for the Enfields. He also said that they are using it to develope a replacement rear sight for the #4 and #5 rifles. I don't know any details of the sight but it will likely be worth some consideration. Ashley makes some good stuff!
My rifle should be here by the end of next week. I'll let you all know how it turned out. I can't wait!!!!
If these "Quest" rifles had been around when I started this project I probably would have used one of them as a basis for my scout.

 

[Jaeger]

Oooopppps!!! Double post!

[This message has been edited by Jaeger (edited January 04, 2000).]

 

[Adamantium]

I've had an No.4 Mk2 Enfield for a few months and I love the .303, recoil is really light IMO. But then again I did buy a very recoil pad .

Ammo is way cheap if you get the old surplus. Can't wait to try my hand at reloading it also.

Check out www.aimsurplus.com , they have the forementioned greek surplus.

Sincerely,
Adam




------------------
Self improvement is a hobby of mine

 

[WOLF]

To all on this thread,

As mentioned earlier in this thread.
I placed an order for the Gibbs Quest Extreme rifle yesterday. 1/5/99. www.gibbsrifle.com


Suggested retial was $249.
Dealer cost was $199.

My Gun shop owner is geting it for me at $230.

Should be here in a couple of 3 days.
I will post my impressions then.

I alos hope to pick up some ammuntion at the Poughkeepsie,NY GUN&Knife show this weekend.

Regards, WOLF

[This message has been edited by WOLF (edited January 06, 2000).]

 

[Dr.Rob]

Hmmmm...

That Gibbs 45/70 Bolt Rifle looks mighty interesting...

One of my long time hunting buddies started out with a sporterized enfield 303.. and as I recall the damn thing kicked like a mule (it had no recoil pad) but then again I was a youngster then and still packing a 30-30.

Depending on the design of the gun a 303 should not kick that hard and DEFINITELY hasenough punch to take down elk sized game at 200+ yards. (add a slip-on recoil pad for comfort over that steel buttplate) Commercial softpoint ammo can be challenging to find but Hansen Cartridge makes several loads. Greek surplus ammo is cheap, but I've also seen posts where guys complain about getting rusty green ammo from some distributors so buyer beware. The sportsman's guide is another good supplier of 303 ammuntion.

You still see SMLE's at the ranges and at the shows, and its hard to tell the junk from the jewels sometimes under all that cosmoline.. at least gibbs cleans them up for you so yoiu can see what you are buying.

Dr.Rob

 

[Keeper]

I have one of gibbs no. 5 jungle carbines and I love it. I do not regret the purchase at all. I put a scope on it and I am going to use it for a bush gun for deer. I have used remington 180gr soft points (You can get them at walmart) and the only problem I have had is that occasionally they do not feed well but If I have to make more than one shot on a deer I should not be hunting anyways.

 

[Oris]

.303 SMLE #4 is nice, but it sure kicks like an elephant...BTW, problems with feeding
are usually caused by the feeding lips of the magazine if they are out of specs...It can be fixed, no big deal.

 

[Will Kwan]

I think the current specs for factory .303 180 gr is 2450 fps. Older ammunition boxes I have give it 2500 fps with the same bullet.

The military amunintion (DI 7Z) and FN I have chronographed run around 2500 fps. The bullet is a 174 gr spitzer. I also had some Yugoslav ammunition that ran around 2300 fps. The bullets were found to be a 190 gr boat tail. This stuff was labelled 8Z.

A useful accessory to any Lee Enfield would be a Parker Hale or Parker peep sight. The sight includes different aperatures and precise windage and elevation adjustments.

Will

 

[WOLF]

Ok....just got back from my FFL dealer and picked up the GIBBS Quest Etreme.

Low and behold you can see the rifle in this months issue of GUNS & AMMO.
They do a short piece on the new line of Jungle carbines.
Well when I pulled mine out of the BOX at the shop everyone said what the heck is that.
I explained to them what it was, showed them the original advertisment from a gun mag so they could see the listed features.
We handed the rifle around everyone liked it's feel, it's fit, the Nickle finish is nice MAT not shiny....NOW remeber they just aplied it over the rifle after it was ported and new fron sight assembly and flashider was mounted (All original markings still evident, NO nicks or scratches removed from metal).....they did not smooth or rework the metal....I did not expect a newly manufactured polished rifle.
( They do select exceptionaly nice No.4's before starting the conversion....I don't mean to say that the riflewas beat up under the Nickle finish it looks great all over...but I had to say for clarity that they start with a 50 year old rifle.)
Just look at the pictures in GUNS & AMMO.
Except those look a might shiny to me...could be the Photo flash doing that.

It had NEW wood, NEW sling swivel studs( The pictures don't show them in Guns&AMMO but they do come on the rifle).
NEW brass But plate....( I will be mounting a SLIP-ON recoil pad).
New 10 round Magazine.
New flip over peep sights.( Adequate).

For the suggested retail price of $249 you can't beat it.
I will try it out this weekend with some NEW UMC .175 pointed rounds I got....for about 11.95 a box of 20.

I may go up to round nose 180's as an all around hunting/survival/defense round.

This may be a great candidate for a SCOUT RIFLE ....They make a NO Gunsmith mount for a scope and I may see If this will turn it into a inexpensive Scout platform.

Will let you know how it shoots soon.

Overall I like it alot for what I paid for it. $230 plus $9 shipping.

I GOT EXACTLY WHAT THEY SAID IT WOULD BE.!
NO complaints from me...I only hope it shoots as good as it looks, and feels ,and functions.


OHhh YEAH !
One great thing is that even though it is a Right hand bolt action and I am a Lefty it is slick and sweet to work the action.
And the safety lever is on the LEFT side so being LEFTY I just push up with my thumb without changing or shifting my grip, easy as can be and I was good to go.
Really liked that.!


WOLF

[This message has been edited by WOLF (edited January 11, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by WOLF (edited January 11, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by WOLF (edited January 11, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by WOLF (edited January 11, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by WOLF (edited January 11, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by WOLF (edited January 11, 2000).]

 

[Jaeger]

If the the no gunsmith mount that you are referring to is the one that replaces the rear sight it works quite well if you use lock-tite. Otherwise it shoots loose.

Is the rear site adjustable? If not I strongly urge you to get an adjustable site.

I've been hunting for a few years with a real #5 Mk1 Jungle Carbine. I have a synthetic stock and a low power Redfield scope mounted on a no gunsmithing scope mount. It likes Remington 180gr JRN the best. It is very handy and very effective. If your new Quewst is anything like my old Jungle Carbine you'll fall in love with it.
As soon as my Enfield Scout is done my old Carbine is going back to stock form.

I'm anxiously awaitng you field report!!!

 

[WOLF]

Jaeger,

Thanks as soon as I get a Good weather day that falls on a day off I will try and shoot it.

In the meantime 2 questions for you.

The Magazine that came with the Quest rifle does not seem to be all that High quality.
Pretty chincy if you ask me...kind'a like a USA mag.
Is this what is available or are there original mags better built and more reliable out there.
( I plan on seeing what Gun Parts Corp. has when I pass there next week also.)
I plan on talking to Val Forgett up at Navy Arms and Bug him about it ( they are the parent co. behing Gibbs Rifle Co.)
The Barrel has a NA Arms Stamp on it.

2nd Question :
This being my first OLD militairy rifle and the first Bolt Gun tah' Boot.
I was wondering the Feed ramp between the magazine and the rifle bore is "kinda steep".
It seems that I have to apply quite a bit of force more than I feel should be required to shove the .303 cartridge out of the magazine then up the ramp into the bore.
Is this me?
It seems that a more relaxed angle would be more apropriate.
Your comments please.

WOLF

 

[Oris]

Magazine is usually the weak point of otherwise such excellent rifle as SMLE.
If magazine is not perfect, and I've never
seen a perfect magazine, feeding can be
"sticky"...You may have a bit more problem
with feeding "round nose" hunting SP bullets than with "sharp nose" FMJ. Solution is to try to slightly readjust magazine lips, allowing for better initial elevation of the cartridge, so it will not stick into the
feeding ramp.