9ballbilly
New member
Are there any advantages to shooting .30 Herrett instead of .30-30 in a Contender pistol?
The big drawback I see is forming cases for the Herrett.
The big drawback I see is forming cases for the Herrett.
.30 Herrett or .30-30 10" Contender?
- Thread starter 9ballbilly
- Start date
It'll require custom dies too. They run about $80 at Graf's. RCBS discontinued their case forming die that ran $243.99 at Midway. These guys are listing brass at $59 per 50. I"d by it all if I could.
http://blog.westernpowders.com/2016/09/the-30-herrett-steps-and-tricks/
However, the biggest draw back is the total lack of factory brass and ammo. If you get off on a hunt and find your ammo is sitting on the kitchen table or the airline lost it, you're done.
Read this. http://blog.westernpowders.com/2016/09/the-30-herrett-steps-and-tricks/
http://blog.westernpowders.com/2016/09/the-30-herrett-steps-and-tricks/
However, the biggest draw back is the total lack of factory brass and ammo. If you get off on a hunt and find your ammo is sitting on the kitchen table or the airline lost it, you're done.
Read this. http://blog.westernpowders.com/2016/09/the-30-herrett-steps-and-tricks/
TruthTellers
New member
I would go .30-30 and not look back. I personally don't understand most wildcat cartridges that require near custom dies. Something like .357 Maximum or 10mm Magnum I can understand as they're just lengthened cases of common shorter cartridges and use the same bullets and dies.
As for advantages, the .30 Herrett is made specifically to be shot in long barrel pistols like the T/C and achieve the same ballistics, but with the use of less powder due to smaller case capacity.
A lot of it depends on what the purpose for the gun will be. What is your intended use for the Contender? Hunting, competitions?
As for advantages, the .30 Herrett is made specifically to be shot in long barrel pistols like the T/C and achieve the same ballistics, but with the use of less powder due to smaller case capacity.
A lot of it depends on what the purpose for the gun will be. What is your intended use for the Contender? Hunting, competitions?
Jim Watson
New member
I bought a .357 Herrett Super 14 for IHMSA but soon traded it for a .30-30 barrel and shot a club member's 10" .30 Herrett. I can't say which was better but I sure hated forming brass for the .357. If you can buy brass, the .30 H in a 10" would make sense.
Cheapshooter
New member
A $12 jig, $20 HF mini chop saw, and $45 Lee 30 Harrett and 35Harrett die sets, all from ebay has me all set up. Just haven't gotten around to whipping a few rounds up to test the process.
44caliberkid
New member
I once had a .357 Herret 10 inch Contender barrel. I thought I was pretty much immune to recoil and muzzel blast, but after a dozen rounds through that gun I felt like I had been slapped around. I sold the barrel, brass and dies. I'd be inclined to just go with the 30-30, but sounds like you're off on an adventure in wildcatting. Have fun. Thinking about that Herret has me thinking of a 7.62x39, necked up to .357 handgun bullets, in an AR platform. Oh, I guess I just invented the 350 Legend.
Cheapshooter
New member
I'm getting anxious to get some 357 Harrett loads developed just to see. Can't imagine it would be much worse than my Super 14 35 Remington, or 10" SSK 45-70. Although both of those are ported barrels.
I started loading the .30 Herrett in about 1977. Had three barrels at one time, loved the cartridge. Once the cases are made it’s just like any other cartridge in the Contender.
I once shot a buddy’s 10” .30-30 with factory loads, it had more blast and recoil but the ballistics would have been either no better, or like most have said worse. Handloads might close the gap, but I never regretted having those Herretts.
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I once shot a buddy’s 10” .30-30 with factory loads, it had more blast and recoil but the ballistics would have been either no better, or like most have said worse. Handloads might close the gap, but I never regretted having those Herretts.
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stagpanther
New member
You can make 30 HRT/Tac 30 (ARP's version in an AR barrel, same as herret but a slightly more forward shoulder) using Hornady's 30 herret dies and 6.8 spc brass, all you have to do is neck up and trim the brass; then offset the shell holder enough from the base of the die. 2700 fps with cavity back's 125 MKZ is easily achievable; lot to be said for an aerodynamic rifle bullet.
ammo.crafter
New member
max vs legend
The 357 Maximum performs better than the Legend.
The MAX case may be a tad shorter but it is a tad wider and holds more powder.
Looks like a case of "let's sell another straight wall rifle/cartridge combo to boost sales".
I fail to understand the practicality of the Legend.
The 357 Maximum performs better than the Legend.
The MAX case may be a tad shorter but it is a tad wider and holds more powder.
Looks like a case of "let's sell another straight wall rifle/cartridge combo to boost sales".
I fail to understand the practicality of the Legend.
stagpanther
New member
Mass production/marketing capability?
At handgun distances , fired out of a Contender ...not any real advantage .
Everything else leans towards the 30-30 .
Factory ammo easy to come by , reloading data is plentiful , brass everywhere (I have picked up a lifetime supply of 30-30 at the public shooting range for free) hardly any deer hunters reload it . Dies are standard cost and no need for case forming dies .
I would go 30-30 and not look back .
Unless you just like the challenge of something wild and different...some do
Go for it !
Good luck
Gary
Everything else leans towards the 30-30 .
Factory ammo easy to come by , reloading data is plentiful , brass everywhere (I have picked up a lifetime supply of 30-30 at the public shooting range for free) hardly any deer hunters reload it . Dies are standard cost and no need for case forming dies .
I would go 30-30 and not look back .
Unless you just like the challenge of something wild and different...some do
Go for it !
Good luck
Gary
Cheapshooter
New member
Let me know where I can get that 350 Legend TC Contender barrel, and a 357 MAX AR upper!
Apples and tangerines. One is an attempted super magnum handgun round that never really caught on....The other a 35 caliber powerhousse designed to operate i. An AR modern sporting rifle platform
stinkeypete
New member
30-30 case is just too big for short barrel, it has no advantage over a smaller .30 cal case... so it sort of makes sense to have a wildcat cartridge for “efficiency and accuracy” but practically a little whisp of Dacron fluff worked fine for me in .30-30 and if you don’t want to wildcat, as you said, brass is simple. I would recommend the Lee set that includes the neck only sizer as most of the time it’s all you need.
I tried everything from 200g cast to 90g half-jacket plinkers and for me, I really enjoyed the 90 grain plinker with a pico pinch of bullseye... going something like 1400 FPS ... basically a “big .22” and the case was like parking a scooter in an aircraft hanger.
I also found the boat tailed ballistic tip 150 grain made for low velocity (nosier) opened perfectly in a deer even with muzzle velocity of 900 FPS. Expensive but good.
The little .308 plinkers though... I shot boxes of those.
If I were to buy back my Contender, I’d be looking at .327 fed max as there are more bullets than in .308 for plinking. As for .357 Max, that’s a brutal fireball and I took deer with it but 44 was less punishing and worked better for me. Big hole wins, esp at pistol velocities.
I’m shooting .380 now in my age. 380 and .44 magnum, and .22. Go big or go small.
Respect for .41 as it’s probably perfectly in the middle... but it just never caught on.
I tried everything from 200g cast to 90g half-jacket plinkers and for me, I really enjoyed the 90 grain plinker with a pico pinch of bullseye... going something like 1400 FPS ... basically a “big .22” and the case was like parking a scooter in an aircraft hanger.
I also found the boat tailed ballistic tip 150 grain made for low velocity (nosier) opened perfectly in a deer even with muzzle velocity of 900 FPS. Expensive but good.
The little .308 plinkers though... I shot boxes of those.
If I were to buy back my Contender, I’d be looking at .327 fed max as there are more bullets than in .308 for plinking. As for .357 Max, that’s a brutal fireball and I took deer with it but 44 was less punishing and worked better for me. Big hole wins, esp at pistol velocities.
I’m shooting .380 now in my age. 380 and .44 magnum, and .22. Go big or go small.
Respect for .41 as it’s probably perfectly in the middle... but it just never caught on.
Cheapshooter
New member
I'm new at the Contender game. Five or six years maybe. Always wanted one, but just couldn justify the money. Until that time I walkedinto a LGS, and saw a stainless G2, ported 35 Remington Super 14 barrel, 14" 2 2 LR match barrel, Burris pistol scope, and Boyt soft case.....for $250!!!
But, what did my bargan basement 'Tender get me? An addiction, and over a grand in barrels, scopes, stocks, etc.
Among the barrels I just had to have the "classics" of course. 30 Harrett, and 357 Harrett.
But, what did my bargan basement 'Tender get me? An addiction, and over a grand in barrels, scopes, stocks, etc.
Among the barrels I just had to have the "classics" of course. 30 Harrett, and 357 Harrett.
MGM has them.
But I was going to agree that the .350 Legend was designed to run in a semi-auto, and likeynworks our well in that role. And I prefer rimmed cartridges in the Contender. So get one of each and be happy.
As for the .30-30 vs. .30 Herrett, I had a .30-30 for a while but eventually sold it. I had a .300 Whisper from SSK that would do anything I wanted the .30-30 to, but with less blast, and the barrel twist could handle heavier bullets. (And I still toy with the idea of getting the chamber cut for .300 W-Rimmed). I suspect the Herrett would be a better choice in pistol-length barrels as well, since that was what it was designed for. But as stated, only for a reloaded.
The answer turned out to be something similar to .30-30 vs .30 Herrett, for a long time I always wondered why Remington made the .221 Fireball, when they could have just chambered the XP-100 for the .222 or the .223. Turned out it wasn't JUST so you would have to buy Remington brass and ammo, but for a more practical reason.
The 10" barrel. Like the .30 Herrett, the Fireball case holds all the powder that can be used from that length barrel. Bigger cases burn more powder, with a lot more of it burning beyond the muzzle and delivering little if any increase in velocity. So, yes, forming the cases may be a pain, but the other side is burning 15% (more or less) less powder and getting the same speeds.
Longer barrels change the equation in favor of the larger capacity case, and sure, you can get .30-30 everywhere, but where's the reloading fun in that??
If you've got to have the easiest thing, then just stick with factory ammo, all you've got to do is open your wallet. Wildcats, are labors of love, something you do to get something that does what you want and isn't something "off the shelf" mass production.
Personally I think that a wildcat, based on a popular case with a proven longevity is more sensible than a new factory round based on a proprietary case that could be (and sometimes is) discontinued a few years later when sales drop off.
Ok, I won't be buying a .30 Herrett barrel for my contender, (unless its for dirt cheap/free) because I already have a 14" .30-30. If I didn't have either, and wanted a 10" the Herret needing formed cases wouldn't be a deal breaker, FOR ME.
The 10" barrel. Like the .30 Herrett, the Fireball case holds all the powder that can be used from that length barrel. Bigger cases burn more powder, with a lot more of it burning beyond the muzzle and delivering little if any increase in velocity. So, yes, forming the cases may be a pain, but the other side is burning 15% (more or less) less powder and getting the same speeds.
Longer barrels change the equation in favor of the larger capacity case, and sure, you can get .30-30 everywhere, but where's the reloading fun in that??
If you've got to have the easiest thing, then just stick with factory ammo, all you've got to do is open your wallet. Wildcats, are labors of love, something you do to get something that does what you want and isn't something "off the shelf" mass production.
Personally I think that a wildcat, based on a popular case with a proven longevity is more sensible than a new factory round based on a proprietary case that could be (and sometimes is) discontinued a few years later when sales drop off.
Ok, I won't be buying a .30 Herrett barrel for my contender, (unless its for dirt cheap/free) because I already have a 14" .30-30. If I didn't have either, and wanted a 10" the Herret needing formed cases wouldn't be a deal breaker, FOR ME.
Ernie Bishop
New member
I have a bud that has a 12" 30-30AI...Works great and shoots accurate.
Don't worry about efficiency.
It is performance I am looking for.
I would prefer a 14" barrel, but if a 10" gives you the MV you are looking for-buy it!
125 NBT works great with the 30-30 whether it is a 10" or 14" barrel.
Easy to get brass and easy to get dies or factory ammo...Kind of a no-brainer, unless you just WANT the Herrett.
If so, get the Herrett!
I use 10-18" specialty pistols in all kinds of chamberings.
Some are quite intense.
I have been told don't do this, because it is not efficient-Get what you want!
Don't worry about efficiency.
It is performance I am looking for.
I would prefer a 14" barrel, but if a 10" gives you the MV you are looking for-buy it!
125 NBT works great with the 30-30 whether it is a 10" or 14" barrel.
Easy to get brass and easy to get dies or factory ammo...Kind of a no-brainer, unless you just WANT the Herrett.
If so, get the Herrett!
I use 10-18" specialty pistols in all kinds of chamberings.
Some are quite intense.
I have been told don't do this, because it is not efficient-Get what you want!
Herrett
I have had a ten inch .30-30 barrel for my Contender for years. Love it....but i always wanted a barrel chambered for the .30 Herrett.
The Herrett is a more efficient cartridge in the ten inch T/C.
When after many years (a couple of decades anyway) the opportunity to buy came, it was a 14” barrel. I bought it. It came with dies and 150 already formed cases. It is a great shooter.
Pete
I have had a ten inch .30-30 barrel for my Contender for years. Love it....but i always wanted a barrel chambered for the .30 Herrett.
The Herrett is a more efficient cartridge in the ten inch T/C.
When after many years (a couple of decades anyway) the opportunity to buy came, it was a 14” barrel. I bought it. It came with dies and 150 already formed cases. It is a great shooter.
Yep. That is it. You have contracted a case of BAD (Barrel Aquisition Disease). There is no cure. Even if you were to sell the gun, you would still find yourself lingering over barrels at gun shows or looking at them in catalogs.
Pete