.30 Blackout Cartridge ?

[TX Hunter]

I was in our local gunshop yesterday, and the man behind the counter showed me this new round, It was a factory box of what looked like .223 necked up to .30 calliber. He claimed that is was sub sonic, and would be a good deer round out to about 200 yards.
I liked the looks of it, as it looked like it would require very little powder to reload.
Does anyone out there know anything about this cartridge ?

 

[NWPilgrim]

Try these to start:

http://www.300aacblackout.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/300_AAC_Blackout_%287.62x35mm%29

I have no hands on experience with it. From what I can tell the .300 Blackout replicates the 7.62x39 performance with 123 gr bullets, maybe a little faster. It has some advantages over that however:

- Little body taper so it can use standard USGI 5.56 mags and does not have the mag/feed issues of the 7.62x39 in the AR15 platform

- Uses the more numerous and varied .308" bullets rather than the .311"

- Can shoot the 200/220 gr bullets subsonic for more effective suppressed fire, as well as 123 gr bullets at around 2,400 fps from a 16" barrel for hunting or self defense. From short barreled rifles it has better performance than the slow 5.56 which loses a lot of velocity in SBRs.

So it has the better terminal ballistics of the 7.62x39 bullet weight, can be subsonic or supersonic, feeds from standard USGI mags with no modifications, and uses common .308" bullets.

On the down side, it has the same range limitations of the 7.62x39 of not much more than 150-200 yds before the bullet drop becomes significant.

 

[TX Hunter]

Thanks NW Pilgram

Thanks for the links, Im interested in this cartridge for reloading it looks effiicient.

 

[cmdc]

I'm having one built, and as soon as it is done, and I shoot it, I'll post a report.

It is basically a re-worked 300 Whisper, but can be used with standard AR BCG, etc. I'm looking forward to shooting it.

 

[rsilvers]

There is a lot to read about it here:

http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=128

 

[TX Hunter]

Thanks, I saw this cartridge and wanted it, i love low recoil .30 calliber cartridges, this one looks like it has alot to offer.

 

[rsilvers]

 

[Mobuck]

I'll go out on a limb and say it will make a pizz poor deer round. Why would anyone be much interested in something with less power than a 30-30 using bullets that probably won't expand(it should be outlawed as "nonexpanding")? Most states don't allow you to hunt deer with a suppressed firearm and that's the only real purpose for the AAC 30.
The 7.62x39 is a bare minimum deer round and it's a magnum compared to the Blackout. I was interested in the 30AR until I compared it to the 7.62x39 and found it was not that much better than the Russian. I'm not a great proponent of the Rusky but I've seen it work. I just laid in a supply of Hornady steel case ammo loaded with SST game bullets. Got to see how they fly and expand.

 

[Technosavant]

Why would anyone be much interested in something with less power than a 30-30 using bullets that probably won't expand(it should be outlawed as "nonexpanding")? Most states don't allow you to hunt deer with a suppressed firearm and that's the only real purpose for the AAC 30.

It would make a better than "marginal" deer round, but at shorter ranges.

Its real purpose is more defensive in nature.

 

[Loader9]

I seriously doubt the gunshops statements. We use a subsonic ammo in the States silenced rifles in 308 Winchester using a 170 gr bullet. At 100 yds that 170 gr bullet only has a little over 300 lbs energy and at 200 yds less than 275. It starts at 1070'ps at the muzzle. This little cracker isn't going to be any more than what we are using and it's not effective for reliable kills even at 100 yds. The District office has advised that it's not to be shot at ranges exceeding 50 yds because of the weak performance. If you just want a dandy round for the AR platform that won't kick you off the bench but you want the 30 caliber bullets, look to the 30 Remington AR. It's not a popular round but it should be.

 

[Crosshair]

I'll go out on a limb and say it will make a pizz poor deer round. Why would anyone be much interested in something with less power than a 30-30 using bullets that probably won't expand(it should be outlawed as "nonexpanding")? Most states don't allow you to hunt deer with a suppressed firearm and that's the only real purpose for the AAC 30.

Well, you went there, time to saw off that limb yer sitting on.

First, try and chamber an AR-15 in 30-30.

The purpose of the 300 AAC is to shove a 7.62x39 type cartridge into the serious design constraints the AR-15 has while at the same time being suitable for reduced subsonic loads.

The supersonic 125 grain loads generate 1,400 ft·lbf of energy at the muzzle, not too far behind the 30-30.

The UMC 44 Mag load generates 551 ft·lbf of energy at 100 yards and seems to take deer just fine with handgun hunters. The .357 magnum numbers are even worse yet it still works just fine.

Those heavy bullets tumble and create and large wound tract.

Deer don't wear kevlar.

 

[Flakbait]

The big issue is the usefulness of the .300 Blackout subsonic round for hunting.

The .300 Blackout supersonic round is similar to the 6.8 SPC which everyone seems to like for whitetail deer at under 250 yards.


Handgun bullets kill by direct tissue destruction in the path of the bullet. The temporary cavity created in ballistic gelatin does not have much significance at slow handgun velocities. That is why handgun self defense ammuntion relies on bullet expansion to inflict the most damage.

Hunting bullets with larger diameters such as the .44 magnum are designed to make .429 wound tracks in creatures (or larger if the bullets are designed to expand).


Rifle bullets kill by direct tissue destruction from tissue touched by the bullet AND by the transmission of force demonstrated by the temporary cavity seen in ballistic gelatin in high velocity rifle rounds. For example, the .223 does much more tissue damage fired from a M4 carbine inside 200 yards than a 22LR round fired at point blank. Both rounds utilize similar diameter bullets but the high velocity .223 creates more tissue destruction from the the high velocity/high kinetic energy (I'm ignoring the fact the Military FMJ .223 is designed to yaw and fragment creating even more destruction).

Also, most hunting rifle bullets are designed to expand creating more destruction of tissue in the bullet wound track. Recovered rifle hunting bullets that mushroom often exceed .5 inches.

Since hangun bullets kill only by direct tissue damage from the bullet itself, examining kinetic energy in handguns is not as useful as comparing kinetic energy in rifles. For example, the .357 magnum handgun with less than 700 ft-lbs of kinetic energy kills deer just fine whereas the .223 rifle with 1200 ft-lbs of kinetic energy is pretty marginal on deer.


The .300 blackout round fired at subsonic speeds probably does not expand.

.300 Blackout subsonic 220 grain .30 inch diameter bullet at 1000 FPS

.44 Magnum handgun 240 grain .429 inch diameter bullet at 1500 FPS

.357 handgun 180 grain .357 inch diameter bullet at 1300 FPS

The 300 Blackout subsonic is vastly inferior to the above traditional hunting handguns and may not be well suited for hunting. Taking out bad guys in the sandbox at night in Afganistan...I think the .300 Blackout subsonic would work great.

 

[rsilvers]

 

[PawPaw]

The purpose of the 300 AAC is to shove a 7.62x39 type cartridge into the serious design constraints the AR-15 has while at the same time being suitable for reduced subsonic loads.

It's an interesting ballistic experiment, for sure, but the purpose of the cartridge is to sell uppers and rifles.

 

[WhitSpurzon]

Pretty much all of the large mammals I've harvested while hunting (I can only think of one that was killed by a CNS shot) died of exsanguination. That would include pointy sticks (arrows) to 45-70.

In my anecdotal experience energy and expansion have little to do with lethality. For my money I'll take two holes - one on each side of the boiler room - for reliable quick kills. Lots of blood leaking out and so far (knock on wood) no real tracking needed. Can't say that about fast skinny bullets that supposedly dump a bunch of energy in the critter and don't exit. The most difficult recoveries and lost game I've experienced have been with 7mm and 300 Win Mag. Elk and Bears especially can go a LONG ways even when hit hard and don't leak out much blood.

I also strongly favor straight through wound channels - "aim for the exit hole." Bullets that fragment and/or tumble have not been reliable killers in my experience. They make an impressive and messy wound channel but a clean hole straight hole that leaks on both sides puts em down quick. The quickest kills I have ever witnessed have been with arrows and slow moving cast bullets. 45-70 at black powder velocities will travel length wise through a 300lb black Bear and he did no make one single move after the initial reaction to the shot.

That being said I believe the 300 Blackout would make a fine Deer cartridge similar to the 30-30.

 

[tobnpr]

If you don't have a need for subsonic ammunition, I don't see the advantage.
Even with a smaller pill, there are better choices for the AR platform that will deliver more kinetic energy.

Outside of suppressed applications, I don't get all the hype, I'd like someone to explain it...

 

[RT]

.300 Blackout is best in a suppressed SBR AR.

 

[TX Hunter]

I was interested in this cartridge for reloading. I would like to have it in a handy little bolt action and load my own cartridges, I figure you would only use about 10 grains of powder in the thing. Dont know would have to look it up. but after reading how underpowered it is, I think I will just stick with .308 Winchester.

 

[Nitesites]

I'd like to have a 300 AAC upper once standard velocity ammunition becomes more widely available.

 

[tobnpr]

The 300 Blackout subsonic is vastly inferior to the above traditional hunting handguns and may not be well suited for hunting. Taking out bad guys in the sandbox at night in Afganistan...I think the .300 Blackout subsonic would work great.

That's what it looked like to me.
Is this just a case of "mall ninja-itis"?

I recently saw a "bit" on the 7.62 x 40WT, and thought the same thing...why?

Sure, these heavy, slow rounds will take hogs at close range. But so will a lot of other choices, that will do many other things well. I guess if I wanted a dedicated "hog-killer" upper, for subsonic use with a suppressor with night vision...it would be a great choice.