3 gun carbine observation

[bamaranger]

Well, the local club/league that I shoot with (and hope to join when the cash loosens up) had its first 3 gun match and bamaboy and I joined in. I fully expected to walk away from the boy, and did, on Stage 1. After that, I just tried to keep up. Me getting a bit lost and very flustered on Stage 3 didn't help.

Lots of fun and good people (and good shooters). I took a close look at carbines present and thought y'all might be interested in what I saw. The event was "bring what you want" and here's what showed up with about 25-30 shooters total. (estimated,mind you)

-AR .223 carbines, all with dot sights..no irons, 4/5's or more of the field
-2 AK's, one very basic, (mine) the other pimped out w/ rails,dot,and telstock
-exactly one Steyer AUG
-exactly one Mini-30 (bamaboy) and 1-4x Leupold

Period. Since it was an "open" event, and very new to our area and pretty basic, I thought sure I'd see some MIni-14's, a few SKS's, maybe a SOCOM-14 or a bolt Scout of some type. Nope. Ranges and courses of fire were short, targets were large, (I knew that going in) and the AK and the Mini gave up little if anything to the AR's.

I keep wondering though, all those Mini-14, SKS's????????????........must all be truck guns.

 

[allaroundhunter]

When you get into more competitive events, the AK and mini platforms actually give up a lot to the AR platform.

Reload time and ergonomics are the biggest places where they fall behind, and then accuracy past 250 yards the AR comes out ahead enough to create a good margin.

 

[bamaranger]

oh yeah

There was one, maybe two pistol caliber carbines, I think both were AR's.

 

[kraigwy]

Real men use real rifles in 3 gun events.

 

[MarkCO]

Real men use real rifles in 3 gun events.

3Gun is not about whose gun is bigger, it is about who is BETTER. With all due respect, you can't win 3Gun with old technology!

The DI AR-15 set up properly is the fastest platform across the course (from 5 yard hosing to 600 yard presicion) and has been for the last 20 years. Sure, things like the Tavor might be a tad faster inside 50 yards, but they lose so much to the DI Ar-15 past 100 yards that the slight advantage vaporizes.

PCCs are cool, and maybe a better tool for some tactical applications, but the recoil is more as compared to a properly set-up DI AR-15 that they will just get blown away on the hoser targets and can't hang past 100 yards or so.

We have a bunch of guys show up with AKs, SKS, KT2000, even the CCUs on pistol frames, but if they get serious, an AR is in their future.

That said, if you are at all interested, get thee to a match! I shot my first match with a 5 shot Rem 870, 15 round G22 and a Marlin Camp 9. I did not win. But if I had owned my current set-up, I doubt it would have changed my score or position much. Find the top shooters and ask them questions, inspect their gear. If you "wait" until you are properly prepared, you will NEVER make it to a 3Gun match!

 

[RickB]

I've shot 3-gun with my AR, and my Garand, but when I shot USPSA Nationals, I used my M1 Carbine! Absolutely not the ticket for 12" reactive targets at 350 yards, but I still had fun (and won my class).

 

[NWPilgrim]

Real men use real rifles in 3 gun events.

Nice one, Craig! But the bayonet charge from the 250 yd line would be tough on us older guys. That would be fun to shoot one with a Garand though, maybe a CMP 3-gun??

 

[allaroundhunter]

Nice one, Craig! But the bayonet charge from the 250 yd line would be tough on us older guys. That would be fun to shoot one with a Garand though, maybe a CMP 3-gun??

The Texas Multi-Gun has a WWII Division. It requires an M1 Garand, pump 12 ga shotgun with 5+1 capacity, and a 1911 with 7+1 capacity.

 

[kraigwy]

3Gun is not about whose gun is bigger, it is about who is BETTER. With all due respect, you can't win 3Gun with old technology!

I'm aware of that, I've successfully shot 3 gun matches with my AR, its more fun to me to use yesterday's weapons. That's why I shot the match with My 30-40 Krag and 1911.

In my latter years I shoot for fun, not to see who I can beat.

You'd be surprised at how many gas gun shooters I did beat in that match. Krag's don't jam and they are accurate.

Nice one, Craig! But the bayonet charge from the 250 yd line would be tough on us older guys.

Actually on one stage they had two small balloons right behind you, you had to turn and engage the balloon hanging on the hostage targets. The Bayonet worked quite well and saved me one reload on that stage.

Problem with the Krag was they had two little popper targets set out, you were suppose to hit each one 6 times, reload and get the other 6 times. My first round broke the target, the second knocked the second target up the hill. The RO said to shoot at what I could see so I rolled the target up the berm.

It was a lot of fun. I already shot a 3 gun match with the Garand and Carbine, I'm thinking next time using a Mosin and Nagant Revolver.

 

[MarkCO]

Kraig, that is what it is all about, having fun.

BTW, thank-you for your service!

 

[bamaranger]

thought about it

I actually thought about taking a Garand. I don't think there was a stage where I would not have had enough ammo in the rifle to finish w/o reloading, provided I took single shots on all targets. ( the drill was two anywhere, or one in the 8" center). In other words, there were never more than 6-8 rifle targets at one time on any stage.

We had a hoot of a time. We shared a Moss 835, (set up as a turkey gun, 6+1 and sights) and both shot Glock 9mm's. The AK would have been a real detriment (this one anyhow) if ranges had been any further, but they were not.

There's talk about creating some factors to figure in the scores, to level the playing field, manual actions v. semi, optics v. irons, etc. But it was the clubs first venture and it was all run very simply.

Again though, since it was such a basic event, I thought we'd see more variety, but we did not.

A Garand w/ a bayonet, ...now the guys WOULD get a kick out of that.!!!!!

 

[allaroundhunter]

Garands typically put you into 'Heavy' class. That means that 1 shot anywhere on paper is good to go.

Your club should look at the rules from some major matches to get a better idea of how to run things and how to divide divisions.

 

[bamaranger]

scores

Got the scores and it seems there WERE divisions, I just didn't know it. ( got in a tad late and missed the intros) And the scores ranked by division. Seems there was enhanced, stock, open and one or two others I can't place (scores not in front of me). No heavy, but I don't think anybody shot a heavy.

I guess 'cause I shot a plain jane AK with irons I was in stock, as was two others. Many enhanced shooters, that would be the AR/dot crowd.

The event is in its infancy here, but the RO's are good guys and the thing should evolve as we all learn our way.

What a hoot.......you gottta try this if it comes your way.

 

[LSnSC]

You'll see alot of dots and a few iron sight shooters at local events. Tac Optics (scopes) shooters out number everything else by a wide margin at larger events. I personally enjoy shooting the Heavy Metal Irons class the best. Smacking those rifle flashers with a .308 is too much fun! It quickly gets expensive though...

I put on a club match near North Myrtle Beach, here in South Carolina. We're part of the 3 Gun Nation Club Series. Participation has increased every month since we started despite one of the wettest summers on record. Every new shooter that we've had come out has a blast and is instantly hooked.

I'll second what Mark said, If you wait till you've got everything just right to get started you never will. If you have to share gear with a buddy to get started, do it!

And I want to give him a big public thanks for being such a strong supporter of the sport!