I am considering the purshase of a new CC handgun in the 1911 platform, preferably in .45 acp but friends expiriences and horror stories have forced me to look at different calibers like the SA EMP IN 9mm and 40 which have proven to be quite reliable. My question is, how come these guns are so reliable and producing a 3" 1911 gun in .45 acp has been such a headache. What are the variables at work that make a 9mm or 40 reliable in a EMP but not a .45 in an Officers size frame?
3" 1911 platforms in different calibers
- Thread starter Fleabag
- Start date
Stressfire
New member
Maybe mine is an exception, but what are some of the problems you refer to?
FTF, FTE in the case of a friends Kimber. The gun was serviced several times by the manufacturer. There was also a bunch of magazine shuffles and spring changes. After much hasstle, the gun runs fine for about 500 rounds when the spring is changed, otherwise the failire begin again. There are several gun stores that do not have in display these guns due to repeated problems.
From what I've read, officers size 1911 are temperamental in nature. The limited expirience I've been exposed to certainly comfirm this. I'm pretty shure there are plenty reliable 3" 1911 out there but there are many instances of problematic examples, specialy when compared to SA EMPs in 9mm and 40 calibers.
From what I've read, officers size 1911 are temperamental in nature. The limited expirience I've been exposed to certainly comfirm this. I'm pretty shure there are plenty reliable 3" 1911 out there but there are many instances of problematic examples, specialy when compared to SA EMPs in 9mm and 40 calibers.
Check out Para Ordnance's CCO 1911's. I've got one and with the exception of one issue that was non size related it has been awesome. Even the problem I had I called, told them what broke, no questions asked they sent a replacement and I had it in 3 days.
I would buy Para again.
I would buy Para again.
Stressfire
New member
Heard that as well, but figured I'd take a shot. Have yet to have an issue with my RIA Officer's, but am only about 200 rounds in. Had some failures to return fully to battery in the first 50 rounds, but has run like a top since - +p ammo helps too but I don't use it often. Eats everything I feed it - ball, jhp, nylon tipped, etc
Owners manual recommends a 500 round break in for some reason, then again Owners manual also gives take-down instructions for the full size GI - first time I ever took it apart, I spent a very long time trying to push on the guide rod before I realized that the CS Model didn't have a bushing
My first 1911, gimme a break
Neither of the EMPs I've seen on the range were very reliable. Granted, I saw fewer than 100 rounds fired through each gun, but 3-5 malfs in 100 rounds isn't very good! The 1911 platform does not run better with shorter rounds (.40, 9mm) than it does with the longer rounds for which it's chambered (.38 Super, 10mm, .45). Theoretically, the EMP should be better-suited to the shorter cartridges, but is it?
Aguila Blanca
Staff
There's no mystery about making a 3" 1911 work with .45 Auto ammunition. The Colt Defender has been around for years and is considered one of the most reliable self-defense pistols available by 1911 cognoscenti. The Para Slin Hawg is also a 3" 1911 in .45 Auto, and mine has been 100 percent reliable from the first shot.Fleabag said:
The Springfield EMP is a special case -- the frame is shorter than a standard 1911, and cannot accept a .45 Auto round. In fact, Springfield developed the EMP around the shorter .45 GAP cartridge, then never brought it to market in that chambering. But it was a natural for the 9mm and .40 S&W rounds, so they sell it for those calibers.
You can't compare the EMP to any other 1911 because there isn't any other brand that uses a similarly shortened grip frame.
Short barreled 1911s require more precise timing which means less room for error, both mechanical and human. You see the human error when someone is recoil sensitive or "limp wrists" the gun, especially in alloy framed pistols. That effects the timing of the slide which can cause problems. Colt defenders do have a good reputation but they are still more sensitive than full size Govt. models.
I don't currently carry any 1911 with a barrel shorter than 4.25" (okay maybe an Officer's Model very rarely) because the extra length isn't any harder to hide. If I need something smaller to conceal, I need something with a shorter grip frame. Currently, that's a Kahr CM9, Sig P238 or sometimes a SW J-frame.
I don't currently carry any 1911 with a barrel shorter than 4.25" (okay maybe an Officer's Model very rarely) because the extra length isn't any harder to hide. If I need something smaller to conceal, I need something with a shorter grip frame. Currently, that's a Kahr CM9, Sig P238 or sometimes a SW J-frame.
The shorter 1911s do require more frequent spring changes. A smaller spring is being asked to do about the same work as the longer GI springs so it won't last as long. 500 rounds is about the max they should go. Some will say 300. It's part of routine maintenace for short 1911s. It's only a reliability issue if you don't change them when you should. FYI - even a government model should be changed after 3,000 rounds. Possibly less if you shoot a lot of +P ammo.
If you want to go longer, consider an STI. Their RecoilMaster will go significantly longer due to a different design. My Shadow has 3,000 rounds on the original recoil assembly without problems. My Escort has over 1,000.
The Defender is also typically reliable. Mine has zero failures in well over 1,000 rounds, but I do keep up with spring changes.
The shorter 1911s do allow less margin for error on the part of the manufacturer and on the part of the user. I personally don't think Wilson et al don't make them because they are impossible to make reliable, I think they are happy with their market share and don't want the hassle of making one work and then dealing with customers who may not keep up with the additional maintenance requirements (either through ignorance or neglect).
Kimber has some issues these days aside from common 3" issues. They often have improper extractor tension (too little), out of spec feed ramps (too shallow top to bottom), and tight chambers (which are good for accuracy but make it more difficult to chamber a wide variety of ammunition). Their slide stop lobes are sometimes too big which allows them to contact the next round in the mag, which in turn causes false lock backs.
If you want to go longer, consider an STI. Their RecoilMaster will go significantly longer due to a different design. My Shadow has 3,000 rounds on the original recoil assembly without problems. My Escort has over 1,000.
The Defender is also typically reliable. Mine has zero failures in well over 1,000 rounds, but I do keep up with spring changes.
The shorter 1911s do allow less margin for error on the part of the manufacturer and on the part of the user. I personally don't think Wilson et al don't make them because they are impossible to make reliable, I think they are happy with their market share and don't want the hassle of making one work and then dealing with customers who may not keep up with the additional maintenance requirements (either through ignorance or neglect).
Kimber has some issues these days aside from common 3" issues. They often have improper extractor tension (too little), out of spec feed ramps (too shallow top to bottom), and tight chambers (which are good for accuracy but make it more difficult to chamber a wide variety of ammunition). Their slide stop lobes are sometimes too big which allows them to contact the next round in the mag, which in turn causes false lock backs.
David the Gnome
New member
I've had two 3" Paras and one Rock Island Armory and I've never had a failure from any of them. I've put a lot of rounds downrange through my Para LDA Companion and it's never even given the hint of a problem. I run Chip McCormick mags in all of my compacts so that may have something to do with it but it doesn't seem like rocket science to me.
All the 3'' 1911's I have fired were fine, a few of my co-workers and friends carry them. I don't like the way they feel in my hands however.
I have been caryring a SA Lightweight Champion Operator that I am very pleased with. 4'' bull barrel, light weight government size frame. It isn't are more difficult to hide vs. a 3''.
My only gripe is my short fingers, the my operator has a long trigger... I am ordering a short trigger for it when I get around to it.
I have been caryring a SA Lightweight Champion Operator that I am very pleased with. 4'' bull barrel, light weight government size frame. It isn't are more difficult to hide vs. a 3''.
My only gripe is my short fingers, the my operator has a long trigger... I am ordering a short trigger for it when I get around to it.
MagnumWill
New member
you're joking, right? I want to see the text that states this. I've put 300 rounds in my 3" New Agent to break the damn thing in, I'm not about to run out and buy recoil springs as frequently as I buy ammo. My .45 has so far had 100% reliability after the first box to break it in. If anything, the "friend's .45" that has had horror stories is probably due to it being a Kimber as opposed to being in .45.
I'll buy a recoil spring as soon as the slide stops moving fast enough to amputate fingers when you hit the slide stop, which I'm sure is 2,000 rounds out. Maybe it's just IMO, but Colt wouldn't be selling compact 1911's if that was such a pertinent issue. Go buy an officer's frame Colt in .45 and don't look back.
Can they work longer than 500 rounds, sure, but unless it's just a range toy you want to replace them before the gun starts having problems cycling. Preventive maintenance, not reactive maintenance, leads to much higher levels of reliability.
I'm not downing 3" 1911s at all, I own and carry them, they just require different maintenance intervals for top reliability.
I'm not downing 3" 1911s at all, I own and carry them, they just require different maintenance intervals for top reliability.
If there is a gun out there that requires it's springs to be replaced every 300 to 500 rounds then I want no part of that gun. It's preposterous to have to change out springs that often to make a gun run. My wife & I just bought new 1911s a week ago. She has 350 rounds through hers already & I have 450 rounds through mine. They have only been cleaned twice. There is no way in haites that I'd be changing out springs already. It's been a lousy week. If one parctices the way they should then they would need to buy recoil springs by the case. Better yet, sell the gold you've been hoarding & buy stock in Wolf Spring Company.
If you burn through 500 rounds all the time, that's a lot more money than the cost of a spring. Why wouldn't you want to replace inexpensive parts in exchange for greater reliability and less wear on your pistol?
Again, I am speaking of the 3" 1911s here, not Government models. I can't find the link I was looking for, but Hilton Yam is one well respected smith, competitor, instructor, and duty user of the 1911 who says 500 rounds for the compact, particularly if you're looking for top reliability and using the gun for duty or personal defense.
Here is what Wolff has to say about compact pistols and spring changes (it's not unique to the 1911, most any small pistol will need more frequent changes and the manuals often specifiy it)...
http://www.gunsprings.com/faq
And I will add again, if you need reliability don't wait for a problem before you change the spring. It's false economy at best.
Again, I am speaking of the 3" 1911s here, not Government models. I can't find the link I was looking for, but Hilton Yam is one well respected smith, competitor, instructor, and duty user of the 1911 who says 500 rounds for the compact, particularly if you're looking for top reliability and using the gun for duty or personal defense.
Here is what Wolff has to say about compact pistols and spring changes (it's not unique to the 1911, most any small pistol will need more frequent changes and the manuals often specifiy it)...
http://www.gunsprings.com/faq
And I will add again, if you need reliability don't wait for a problem before you change the spring. It's false economy at best.
MagnumWill
Read the "Detailed Description":
http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Full-Length-Guide-Rod-Officers/productinfo/25CO/
Read the "Detailed Description":
http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Full-Length-Guide-Rod-Officers/productinfo/25CO/