2a conversations

[gaseousclay]

I was taking with a woman I know last month about recent events, like the rioting, looting and arson that’s been springing up, and she surprised me when she said she was planning on buying a handgun for self defense. She said that she no longer felt safe and didn’t see things getting better. I told her that I was a gun owner and pro-2a advocate and briefly touched on why I became a gun owner and the importance of firearm safety.

Fast forward, a couple days ago we had another conversation about firearms where she proceeded to say, “I don’t know why people need weapons of war like AK47’s for self defense.” I know that there are those that own AK’s but I think she was conflating the AK with the ar15. I then asked her if she meant the ar15 because that is the rifle that has been demonized by the media because of mass shootings. She then fumbled and said she wasn’t sure but that she didn’t think it was necessary to own guns that can fire so many rounds so fast. I explained to her that the ar15 is a semiautomatic, just like the handgun she wants to purchase and explained the difference between semiautomatic and automatic.

In a nice way I suggested she educate herself on ar15’s, especially if she wants a handgun, before rushing to judgement on it as a self defense weapon. I don’t think she quite understood that when it comes to personal safety the firearm that one uses is a personal choice. I’m glad she’s at least taken the first step towards gun ownership but I fear her rationale may be clouded. I didn’t tell her I owned an ar15 because of her knee jerk response.

My question is, how do you fully convince someone to open their eyes to 2a rights without them cherrypicking information? I try not to push my beliefs onto others but I feel like I have to put my foot down sometimes to get people to understand how irrational their statements can sound. She wants a handgun for self defense but wants to deny someone else’s right to own an ar15 for self defense.

 

[TJB101]

I’m told old to fight and too young to die. That is why I support gun rights.

That and the multiple break-ins and home invasions that have occurred over the years in the neighborhood I live in.

 

[seanc]

Sounds to me you've already done a good job.

 

[zukiphile]

My question is, how do you fully convince someone to open their eyes to 2a rights without them cherrypicking information?

How do you persuade someone to change their beliefs? First, it can help to know a) what they believe, and b) what they think they know. That's a process that involves asking questions and hearing the answers.

Secondly, there's also the less intellectual route of influencing a person's experience. Taking someone shooting in a non-threatening setting and using a non-scary firearm (no snub nosed 44 magnums) with very close instruction so the person feels secure through the process can help. It gives a person a real life reference that isn't a Rambo film or a local news story about a 7/11 robbery.

The first way can be difficult, and lots of people just aren't open to it. The second way can bypass a person's convictions on a topic.


I'm a bit of a technophobe. I don't carry a cellular phone (which is really a radio) and I think people are too quick to embrace novel technical solutions to non-problems because they like the novelty.

How do you get someone like me to use computers and remote conferencing equipment? Explaining to someone like me who hasn't handled conferencing equipment how it is convenient and easy is unlikely to work, but showing me how it can be used will give me a reference for the stuff that is positive. I'll never be the fellow telling you to buy the latest iPhone, but maybe I won't groan about it if someone wants to meet by video.


Maybe the woman in the story won't fill her basement with Pmags or become a reloader, but she might be the person in a group who can say "Oh, I've shot those. Fundamentally, they are rifles like any other."

 

[44 AMP]

“I don’t know why people need weapons of war like AK47’s for self defense.”

Because of how well they work??

Worrying about confusion of the AR and the AK is a red herring. Doesn't matter, They're the same, both semiauto rifles that look like their select fire military "weapons of war" cousins.

TODAY the AR is the demon of choice in the media, because today's crazies are using them over the AK, which was the demon of choice in the mass shootings of the later 1980s and through the 90s.

Help your ladyfriend with gun safety, its the first, most important step. But, while doing that, make sure she understands the second important thing about using a gun for self defense, and that is fully understanding the laws and when you are justified shooting, and even more importantly, when you are NOT.

work on her attitude about other things later...after she gets a better understanding of the subject.

 

[gaseousclay]

I did touch on the importance of safety and knowing the laws surrounding self defense. I basically told her that the majority of gun owners would rather not shoot someone but that the only reason for having them is as a last resort to protect yourself or your family. Her decision to get a gun was driven by fear. Likewise, non-gun owners dislike guns because of fear. I told her to take safety courses and go to a range. That experience will help her and others like her get over their fear of guns, or certain types of guns.

 

[DaleA]

You're doing the Lord's work G.

Best place to change a person’s mindset on guns is at the range. And by the range I mean someplace you can shoot that is comfortable and by THAT I mean:

1. NOT a commercial indoor range where they charge by the hour and you’re constantly hectored to hurry up for the next group.
2. NOT a commercial indoor range with a lot of others doing mag dumps and the guy with the S&W 500 shaking the walls.
3. NOT a commercial range with a rude range officer looking over your shoulder ready to pounce on any range rule violations.
4. Find a place that is NOT 94 degrees in the sun or 10 degrees. You know what I’m talking about gaseousclay.
5. Find a place that NOT mosquito infested (or gnats etc.).
6. Find a place hopefully where you will be alone and can take off the ear protection and talk about what you’ll be doing.
7. Find a place that has restroom facilities that are acceptable BY YOUR GUEST.
8. Just take the AR out of its case, show them how it works and let them shoot it. Don’t pontificate about 2nd amendment, weapons of war, the folly of gun control etc.
9. Let them shoot at some “reactive” targets…they’re more fun than just paper targets. (Remember when there were commercial shooting galleries? Me neither but I’ve seen them in movies.)

 

[PocketCamera]

its awfully hard to change some minds. awfully hard...

some will refuse no matter the evidence. Its like the one fiancee i had. her family lived out of state in a gated community provided with two ARMED guards in a gold cart 24/7. yet she claimed she refused to h ave a gun for hunting or self defence.. that it wasnt needed.

best you can do is get online and have her look at Female MMA fighters getting their asses handed to themselves when fighting a MALE MMA fighter. its very normal for that to happen. then simply ask how shed do in that fight... its normally enough to restart thinking processes

 

[gaseousclay]

Fear is usually a good motivator judging from the surge in new gun buyers. I dislike fear mongering but I sometimes feel like I have to paint ‘what if’ scenarios, especially with a lot of these mobs/riots springing up. It’s one of the reasons I bought an AR myself, even though I’m not new to firearms. Believe it or not, semiautomatic firearms weren’t my cup of tea when I first got into guns, but now they are

 

[zukiphile]

Fear, a reaction, can also be an indiscriminate motivator.

Gaseous, your question was how to open someone's eyes to 2d Am. rights, an idea; a merely visceral reaction will not suffice.

PocketCamera, if showing one MMA fighter beating another would show a woman that she needs a gun to defend against a faster and more powerful man, what is her reaction to the need to defend against a man with a larger and faster firearm? Is her reaction possibly that she can remove or reduce that danger by prohibiting arms? That reaction isn't entirely rational, but it can be the product of a motivation that isn't well reasoned.

 

[gaseousclay]

Gaseous, your question was how to open someone's eyes to 2d Am. rights, an idea, a merely visceral reaction will not suffice.

True. I didn't really have to paint a bleak scenario to get this woman to buy a gun in the first place. The approach that seems to have worked so far is to separate fact from fiction and to not get emotional. I emphasized, too, that she educate herself on 2a, meaning, watch educational videos on youtube, research the statistics, go to a range and learn firearm safety and experience first hand what it's like to handle a gun. My goal is to try to ease her out of her bubble and open her mind to guns.