270win KaBOOM
- Thread starter Gbro
- Start date
The story
The story behind it;
Tony returned home from an afternoon deer hunt and when he climbed
out of his pickup he heard something hit the ground. He found a loaded
cartridge and couldn't read the head stamp because it was to dark. Thinking it must one of his .270 Win cartridges he pocketed it and figured he would look closer the next day.
Tony and his 13 year old son were driving through the old mining property
the next day when Tony spotted a nice buck. He told his son to quietly get out of the pickup and try to get a shot at it. Now this isn't on any kind of improved road, so there was nothing wrong with what he was asking his son to do.
Well the boy couldn't see the deer, and Tony said it was starting to move.
At this point Tony removed his rifle from the case and grabbed a cartridge from his pocket and chambered it. The blast flash burned his eyes and both ear drums were ruptured. powder burns and shrapnel covered his face. The young boy didn't know if his Dad was going to live or not and had to drive him to town.
Tony made a very good recovery, and I ask him if he still flinches today. He says he dose at times.
His son took Tony's brothers to the site and after recovering the larger pieces of the rifle looked for the buck. They found blood, but were not able to recover the animal.
Tony donated this rifle to our firearms safety group about 10 years ago.
He also thought that the cartridge he loaded into the rifle must have been one of his sons .280 Rem's, but the brass is most definitely marked 30-'06.
He has no explanation for where that cartridge came from.
I intentionally left the pictures large for closer viewing.
The story behind it;
Tony returned home from an afternoon deer hunt and when he climbed
out of his pickup he heard something hit the ground. He found a loaded
cartridge and couldn't read the head stamp because it was to dark. Thinking it must one of his .270 Win cartridges he pocketed it and figured he would look closer the next day.
Tony and his 13 year old son were driving through the old mining property
the next day when Tony spotted a nice buck. He told his son to quietly get out of the pickup and try to get a shot at it. Now this isn't on any kind of improved road, so there was nothing wrong with what he was asking his son to do.
Well the boy couldn't see the deer, and Tony said it was starting to move.
At this point Tony removed his rifle from the case and grabbed a cartridge from his pocket and chambered it. The blast flash burned his eyes and both ear drums were ruptured. powder burns and shrapnel covered his face. The young boy didn't know if his Dad was going to live or not and had to drive him to town.
Tony made a very good recovery, and I ask him if he still flinches today. He says he dose at times.
His son took Tony's brothers to the site and after recovering the larger pieces of the rifle looked for the buck. They found blood, but were not able to recover the animal.
Tony donated this rifle to our firearms safety group about 10 years ago.
He also thought that the cartridge he loaded into the rifle must have been one of his sons .280 Rem's, but the brass is most definitely marked 30-'06.
He has no explanation for where that cartridge came from.
I intentionally left the pictures large for closer viewing.
I have heard that same statement before. I have also been told that the Parker Hale has a longer than usual lead(freebore).
I have the rifle(what is left of it) and the brass is still in the chamber, and it is clearly head stamped 30-06.
I will not speculate on how hard the bolt was to close, if there was any resistance or anything as the shooter has no memory of that.
FrankenMauser
New member
I tried replying last night, but the site went down. (Hopefully, I don't end up with 67 duplicate posts...) Rogn has covered part of my post, but here it is, anyway.
It takes an overly inappropriate amount of force to chamber an '06 cartridge in a .270.
Or....
I rifle capable of firing out of battery. (My grandfather has a wonderful example of how NOT to turn down a bolt handle. The shooter found out the hard way, when he fired it with the bolt lugs only partially engaged. -The lugs were still on the bevels; not even to the flats yet.- The barrel, receiver, bolt, and stock were all turned into scrap.) I'll try to get a good picture, next time I'm up there.
Thanks for posting.
It takes an overly inappropriate amount of force to chamber an '06 cartridge in a .270.
Or....
I rifle capable of firing out of battery. (My grandfather has a wonderful example of how NOT to turn down a bolt handle. The shooter found out the hard way, when he fired it with the bolt lugs only partially engaged. -The lugs were still on the bevels; not even to the flats yet.- The barrel, receiver, bolt, and stock were all turned into scrap.) I'll try to get a good picture, next time I'm up there.
Thanks for posting.
Rifles are precision instruments--Do NOT force em.
If the bolt wont close regularly(easily) there is a problm. Dont beat on the bolt handle to close it.
I dont vahe a 270, but there is no way a 30-06(I do have) will chamber in a 270. I have accidentially made a 30-06 case out of a 270, and can be done the other way, but it wont chamber.
If the bolt wont close regularly(easily) there is a problm. Dont beat on the bolt handle to close it.
I dont vahe a 270, but there is no way a 30-06(I do have) will chamber in a 270. I have accidentially made a 30-06 case out of a 270, and can be done the other way, but it wont chamber.
5R milspec
New member
now I am just guessing at this.but could the 13 year old boy have loaded this one bullet.that is if Tony loaded his own.would think its posible.at 13 years of age we can be very curious.may have been double charged or the wrong powder.heck let me stop.the point is we all need to keep a sharp eye on what we are doing.so that things like this want happen.just glade to know that Tony is alive and doing OK.hate that it happened.
Since a .30-'06 case could have been necked down to take a .270 bullet, the head stamp on the case in the rifle chamber really doesn't help explain this very much. Tony "didn't know where the round came from" so he really doesn't know what caliber it was or what charge it had in it. He heard something fall, looked down and picked the cartridge up of the ground. It isn't even clear that it was the cartridge that he heard falling, so maybe it was somebody else's load?
The post also is written sort of ambiguously, because it says that Tony chambered a round and that the gun exloded, but it does NOT say that Tony pulled the trigger. I am assuming that he did, since his son looking for the deer and finding blood seems to imply that Tony was at least pointing the gun at the deer when the explosion occurred.
It looks really odd to me that the barrel AND case seem to be intact, but the receiver was destroyed where it wraps around those two things. I understand that gases exiting the back of the chamber could do the damage we see to the receiver and bolt, but I don't undestand why there was so much gas coming out of the barrel if the bolt was actually closed properly and the case is intact.
Can somebody explain that for me?
SL1
The post also is written sort of ambiguously, because it says that Tony chambered a round and that the gun exloded, but it does NOT say that Tony pulled the trigger. I am assuming that he did, since his son looking for the deer and finding blood seems to imply that Tony was at least pointing the gun at the deer when the explosion occurred.
It looks really odd to me that the barrel AND case seem to be intact, but the receiver was destroyed where it wraps around those two things. I understand that gases exiting the back of the chamber could do the damage we see to the receiver and bolt, but I don't undestand why there was so much gas coming out of the barrel if the bolt was actually closed properly and the case is intact.
Can somebody explain that for me?
SL1
No, the youth had his own rifle. That was a .280(7mm RE).
Like I posted, the owner has no clue as to where the '06 cartridge came from.
When he donated the rifle he told me that he must have chambered a .280, but again the case in it "is" a 30-'06Springfield. and the rifle "IS" stamped .270win.
In hast, slamming a bolt closed, it may be possible to push the lead in. Possible??
mapsjanhere
New member
Reloaded 30-06 case with 270 bullet with double charge or wrong powder seems more likely, especially if he actually hit the deer.
A short story,,--well maybe a short book related to this thread;
.308 in a .280.
My nephew chambered and fired a .308 shell in his rem-7400 .280. The rifle took the round with no ill effects to the rifle. The shell was stuck pretty firmly in the chamber, but a solid cleaning rod removed it. I pulled the rifle down to inspect every aspect of it including removing the barrel and detailed inspection of the bolt, chamber, and receiver. Reassembled, it functioned normally, with normal accuracy.
The .308 will chamber just fine in a .280 chamber, the bullet jams into the neck area of the .280 chamber. The pressure must have been real high, it speaks volumes to the strength of the 7400 action. His wife had a m-100 Winchester at that time, one of her shells ended up in his rifle. He's not the brightest penny in the pocket, so he didn't notice the obvious difference in the shells.
I mention that story because it's very possible to chamber and fire that combo. The 30-06 in a .270 is not possible!
The 30-06 and the .270 are nearly identical in length. To get a 30 cal. bullet and neck into a 27 cal. chamber would require enormous pressure, more than could possibly be exerted by a hand on a bolt. Even when pumped up by buck fever!
.308 in a .280.
My nephew chambered and fired a .308 shell in his rem-7400 .280. The rifle took the round with no ill effects to the rifle. The shell was stuck pretty firmly in the chamber, but a solid cleaning rod removed it. I pulled the rifle down to inspect every aspect of it including removing the barrel and detailed inspection of the bolt, chamber, and receiver. Reassembled, it functioned normally, with normal accuracy.
The .308 will chamber just fine in a .280 chamber, the bullet jams into the neck area of the .280 chamber. The pressure must have been real high, it speaks volumes to the strength of the 7400 action. His wife had a m-100 Winchester at that time, one of her shells ended up in his rifle. He's not the brightest penny in the pocket, so he didn't notice the obvious difference in the shells.
I mention that story because it's very possible to chamber and fire that combo. The 30-06 in a .270 is not possible!
The 30-06 and the .270 are nearly identical in length. To get a 30 cal. bullet and neck into a 27 cal. chamber would require enormous pressure, more than could possibly be exerted by a hand on a bolt. Even when pumped up by buck fever!
There might be some .280 and obviously something in a 30-06 case in the pocket with what might have been a .270 but not sure. I don't wanna be a buzzkill but that's a crazy pocketful of bullets since I guess they were for his, and also his son's rifle and a few pickups. Nothing good could come from that. Note to self....
Absolutely, as this happened about 15 years ago. I was promised the rifle but it was kept in a trunk that was also the base to a large aquarium, so it was 5 years after the incident that I took possession of the rifle. I had heard the story about it being the result of a .280 Rem in the .270 Win, and upon inspection found the case to be an '06. Tony couldn't understand where that '06 could have come from as the family didn't own one, so yes this is very open to speculation.
I had suspicions myself, but after putting the rifle on display at the local rifle range during sight in days, the oldtimers took quite an interest in it and one of them gave me the theory of the oversize free bore with Parker-Hale rifles as a possible explanation.
I never intended to alter anything with this rifle, but I am now planning on removing the case and doing some measurements.I will do that with a qualified gunsmith friend of mine.
wncchester
New member
"I donot beleive anyone is strong enough to force a 30/06 loaded cartridge into a 270W chamber using only the bolt----"
Ditto.
And the question isn't the throat, its the neck diameter of the chamber.
Comparing chambering a .308 in .270/.280.30-06 isn't even close to the same thing, the .308 is shrort enough to permit that, the 30-06 is simply too fat to fit into a .270. Like a horse making love to a rabbit, that just can't be done and survive even before it goes off.
MUCH more likely the cartridge was from an easily reformed -06 case loaded with a very fast powder. Bullseye would do that!
Ditto.
And the question isn't the throat, its the neck diameter of the chamber.
Comparing chambering a .308 in .270/.280.30-06 isn't even close to the same thing, the .308 is shrort enough to permit that, the 30-06 is simply too fat to fit into a .270. Like a horse making love to a rabbit, that just can't be done and survive even before it goes off.
MUCH more likely the cartridge was from an easily reformed -06 case loaded with a very fast powder. Bullseye would do that!
5R milspec
New member
Hummmmm
I think this is going some where.and I like the idea of takeing the case out of the barrel.I think this needs to be done for one main reason.most rifel makers are now chambering with what I call to much free bore.and if this is the case from what you find out.I think this should be something all rifel makers should look into.I can see some one doing this if there is to much free bore.but if it was the other way around it might not have been such a bad day.but we still need to keep in mind that we all can make this type of a mistake.I think we all need to take this at heart.even haveing two kinds of powders out can easily make a bad day.just read where a gent put a good bit of one powder into another type of powder.so reloading or even finding a bullet at your favorite hunt'n spot can end up becomeing a bad thing.its just that we need to take the time and really pay close attention to what ever it is we are doing.Dad always said no matter what you are doing just do it as safe as you can.we only have one life to live.and Tony was granted a second chance at life.just hope that we can learn from Tony's bad experience.so that things like this want happen again.just hate something like this did happen.we all think we are the best at what we do.but we neaver think that we can be dumb at times.face it we are human and we will be dumb at some point in our lives.
I think this is going some where.and I like the idea of takeing the case out of the barrel.I think this needs to be done for one main reason.most rifel makers are now chambering with what I call to much free bore.and if this is the case from what you find out.I think this should be something all rifel makers should look into.I can see some one doing this if there is to much free bore.but if it was the other way around it might not have been such a bad day.but we still need to keep in mind that we all can make this type of a mistake.I think we all need to take this at heart.even haveing two kinds of powders out can easily make a bad day.just read where a gent put a good bit of one powder into another type of powder.so reloading or even finding a bullet at your favorite hunt'n spot can end up becomeing a bad thing.its just that we need to take the time and really pay close attention to what ever it is we are doing.Dad always said no matter what you are doing just do it as safe as you can.we only have one life to live.and Tony was granted a second chance at life.just hope that we can learn from Tony's bad experience.so that things like this want happen again.just hate something like this did happen.we all think we are the best at what we do.but we neaver think that we can be dumb at times.face it we are human and we will be dumb at some point in our lives.
Yes, but-- the outside diameter of a fired .270 case neck I have is .310. That means the .308 bullet would enter the neck area of the .270 chamber. Also BUT-- it would then stop when the larger neck of the '06 case tried to enter the neck area of the chamber, stopping well before the bolt could close on the '06 case.
As said above, the freebore has nothing to do with this, since a 30-06 will not chamber in a .270, neither will a 8mm mauser. Best bet would be a .280 in a .270. There's .005 difference in the outside diameter of the .280 neck compared to the .270, a tight fit but doable. However, I don't think the minor difference of,(.284 to .277), would blow a strong bolt gun like that one did.
Here's a guess...
We know that the .30-06 (.308) and the .270 use different bullets. If you attempted to chamber one in this manner--a hard shove on the bolt COULD force the bullet back into the case. The neck could then swage down enough to close the bolt.
Pull the trigger, and you have a bomb.
Just a guess...
We know that the .30-06 (.308) and the .270 use different bullets. If you attempted to chamber one in this manner--a hard shove on the bolt COULD force the bullet back into the case. The neck could then swage down enough to close the bolt.
Pull the trigger, and you have a bomb.
Just a guess...
5R milspec
New member
learning from ones mistake
there are many things that could have been the reason for this to have happened.and I hope he is able to find out when he takes the case out.the most likely is that the 30/06 case was resized to a different cal.but the main reason for this post is for us the readers to learn a lesson.and to be as careful as we can be.he was just giveing another gent some good advice.me or some other reloader might not care if we transform a case size to another one.or even a good seasoned reloader.he just wanted to make a point to what might happen if one was to do this and make the same mistake.and it keeps referring to safety.but hey JMHO
there are many things that could have been the reason for this to have happened.and I hope he is able to find out when he takes the case out.the most likely is that the 30/06 case was resized to a different cal.but the main reason for this post is for us the readers to learn a lesson.and to be as careful as we can be.he was just giveing another gent some good advice.me or some other reloader might not care if we transform a case size to another one.or even a good seasoned reloader.he just wanted to make a point to what might happen if one was to do this and make the same mistake.and it keeps referring to safety.but hey JMHO