.22lr w/ bullet other than soft lead

[simonrichter]

Had a few backyard trials with my new PT22. Whenever I tried to test the penetration of the 22lr rounds in say a phone book or thelike, the depth of entry was quite hard to tell because the bullets tend to shatter and don't drill a clear whole, making it hard to tell how many layers were actually penetrated. I didn't expect a lot out of such a short barrel, still I was surprised it didn't even penetrated mild sheet metal hardly thicker than tin can.

Apart from that, it would be easier to collect bullets rather than fragments. Thus, I wondered whether there is .22lr ammo with other than just lead bullets? I'm well aware that there are no actual FMJ rounds, but anything other than soft lead would be an improvement...

 

[newfrontier45]

The heeled design precludes anything other than relatively soft, swaged lead. No jacketed bullets exist. That said, the .22LR tends to penetrate very well considering how it looks on paper. On soft targets like phone books, it should do very well. Harder targets like sheet metal, not so much.

 

[simonrichter]

I see the point, but wouldn't it be (theoretically, as it seems...) possible to use lead on the base and the outside and a harder material for the core?

 

[Buzzcook]

Copper plated .22 should hold together a bit better.

Buy some different brands and try them out.

 

[newfrontier45]

Copper plated .22 should hold together a bit better.

It's copper washed, not plated. It doesn't do anything for the integrity of the bullet.

 

[SDC]

Actually, there HAVE been 22 LR FMJ rounds; the US Air Force issued these for use with their rimfire "bail-out" guns before the 22 Hornet was adopted for the same purpose.

 

[laytonj1]

It's copped washed, not plated

There are some. CCI list several of their 22LR high velocity rounds as CPRN, which would mean copper plated round nose.
From their website:

•Mini-Mag 36-grain, copper-plated hollow point; 1,260 fps

Jim

 

[carguychris]

I have been told that the US military procured a small amount of .22LR FMJ ammo during the late 1940s and early 1950s for the .22LR/.410 over/under M6 Aircrew Survival Weapon, due to a legal concern that lead bullets could violate the Hague Convention if used against enemy soldiers. Military leaders supposedly later decided that the issue was trivial, and reverted to issuing standard off-the-shelf lead bullets. The FMJ ammo is supposedly very rare today and is coveted by cartridge collectors.

Mandatory Disclaimer: I have no idea whether this is actually true. The person who told me this may have been deliberately pulling my leg.

Other than this possibly bogus story, I have never heard of, nor seen, a jacketed .22LR bullet.

 

[simonrichter]

Given the variety of .22lr loads today and the fact that it obviously IS possible to manufacture FMJ heeled bullets, I wonder why there is not ONE manufacturer today offering this option...

And yes, plated or washed, that doesn't make any difference...

 

[laytonj1]

You can scratch it off with a fingernail.

You might be right. They don't say how thick the plating is. Next time I come across some I'll give it a try.

Jim

 

[PointOneSeven]

Slowing the bullet down will help, like the standard velocity or subsonic rounds for recovering bullets. Won't help though if your checking depth of carry ammo or hunting rounds. For 'scientific' purposes, the slow ammo is a hoot though .

Oh, and the subsonics may not cycle the p22 though, so one at a time .

 

[simonrichter]

Oh, and the subsonics may not cycle the p22 though, so one at a time

At least that is not much of a problem since I have a wonderful PT22 with a tip-up barrel

Still, I'm waiting for someone to come forth with steel core .22s.

@carguychris: I have the same information, though I learned the FMJ were made for the High Standard suppressed pistol (but for the same reason, after all, Hague convention)

 

[L_Killkenny]

Like with centerfire bullets, not all .22lr bullets are created equal. But I have never ever had any .22lr solid come apart. Don't care whether it's bare, washed, plated, whatever. Bullets with large HP's and fragmenting bullets yes, not solids and to be honest, not most HP's.

If you getting solids to fragment you must have the hardest phone books known to man.

 

[jhenry]

The USAF.22/.410 was always a .22 Hornet over .410. The civilian versions, the M6, were available in .22lr though. The military .22Hornat ammo did in fact have a fmj projectile. This stuff used to come on the market years and years ago dirt cheap, but no more. It is now rare.

 

[lamarw]

I am rather surprised with what I am reading. I don't shoot .22 rimfire often these days, but I sure did when I was a younster. (in a rifle)

I also do not remember bullets falling apart. They deformed but stayed together. I dug a few out of tree trunks. There was also an old junker 54 Ford on my Dad's farm, and .22 LR penetrated the fenders and doors.

Is pistol velocity that much less or today's .22 ammo less potent?

 

[James K]

According to Hackley, Woodin and Scranton (History of Modern U.S. Military Small Arms Ammunition), in early 1944 the U.S. Army intended to issue standard hollow point .22 LR for use by the Air Force (the USAAF - the USAF did not yet exist) in a survival rifle. Concerns about the Hague convention caused that idea to be rejected, and work began on a FMJ .22 LR, which became the T42. Remington was given a production contract and started work in Sept 1944, ultimately producing some 3 million rounds, including 1.5 million rounds for the OSS for use in silenced pistols.

The continued demand led the Army to standardize the round as the M24. The production round used a 40.5 grain bullet at 1275 fps at 25.5 feet. The jacket is smooth, with no grooves or steps. Total production of the M24 is not indicated. T42 cartridges were packed in white boxes; M24 rounds were packed in commercial boxes which were sealed in foil lined paper with the military designation.

I have seen several of the FMJ .22 rounds, but they are scarce today in spite of what would seem a fairly high production.

Jim

 

[Oldwoodsloafer]

Military FMJ 22 LR

The Army Air Force M24 rounds were used for the Savage/Stevens 22-410 (later designated by Savage as the model 24). The military bought a lot of, I believe, 10,000 for use in aircraft survival kits. They were supplied with plastic Tenite stocks.

 

[simonrichter]

Is pistol velocity that much less or today's .22 ammo less potent?

I'm pretty sure it's the former. As already mentioned, I used a very short-barreled semiauto. It occurs to me that actually out of a Rifle, the bullets didn't shatter on paper (!) as they did out of the mouse gun.

 

[michael t]

I shoot Blazer and CCI 22 LR lead standard velocity out of my Beretta 21 A and have none of these problems

Years ago I used my 10/22 on a old 55 chev on my farm and at 100 yds would go thru passenger door.

What brand are these bullets.

 

[RJay]

I also used to shoot at an old abandoned car near our farm. The .22 easily penetrated the sheet metal., even from a distance.