22LR Conversion Kit... Which one? Sig vs Ciener 1911 Vs CZ

[WVsig]

I am considering a kit for one of my pistols. I am looking at a kit for a 1911, Sig P220 or a CZ P01.

Ciener Platinum Cup 22LR coversion kit for the 1911
CZ Kadet
Sig 22LR for the P220

Any have experience with these kits. I am looking to add one to the stable. I know that they do not lock back the slide on the last round but that is not a big deal for me. How reliable are these kits... how is the accuracy at 25 yards.

 

[overkill0084]

I am only familiar with the CZ Kadet Kit. It has been excellent for me (75 BD). I can't recall any failure at all that wasn't due to bad ammo. Accurate too.
FWIW, I know a guy who has a Ciener setup, he's happy with it.

 

[BigJimP]

I have an old Ceiner kit for a 1911 ...
a Sig kit for the 226 ...
a Kimber 1911 kit ...
and a wilson combat 1911 kit ( made by Marvel).

None of my kits are reliable with bulk .22 ammo / or any ammo other than CCI MiniMag. With bulk ammo - they all seem to have a lot of feeding issues. I also have a Browning Buckmark, as a comparison, and it eats the bulk Remington ammo almost 100% - where none of the kits do better than 75% and it gets worse as they get dirty as you shoot during the session.

Accuracy on them is all about the same - but I'm no bulls eye shooter ...and at 25 yds ( none of them will be as accurate as a S&W model 41, or a Hammerli, or any high end .22 weapon). I do think the most accurate of my 4 kits ...is the kit made by Marvel for Wilson Combat - and I think its because the way Marvel designs their lock up system - the kits locks up on the frame a little more securely than the others ...and the one casual Bulls Eye saturday match I shot with it ...on my Wilson CQB 5" gun ....I did ok ( 60% 10 rings - 30% 9 rings and a few yanks....)...but its not a gun I would shoot for Bulls Eye matches if I wanted to get into that stuff.

Don't want to talk you out of it .....but to make them run / CCI MiniMag in my area is about $ 10 - $ 12 for a box of 100 rds ...and if you reload / my reloads for 9mm are under $ 5 for a box of 50. Because of that - I don't shoot the kits much at all ....I keep them around because I have a lot of younger grandkids - and they like shooting what looks like large frame guns with the kits on them ...( and those kids are 5 - 10 yrs old ) ....but the older grandkids ...13 - 20 ....none of them want to shoot .22 kits ...they all want to shoot guns in 9mm, or .357 mag or something else.../ but the dressed up Browning Buckmark I picked up - it was a plain Camper model, but dressed up with Tactical Solutions grips, barrel and compensator and I put a Browning red dot sight on it ...( and it locks back the slide when its empty ) ...they all like shooting it a little ...or one of my S&W revolvers in .22...but not the kits.

As a training tool -- for myself....personally, I shoot a lot of 9mm in a 1911 and I carry a 1911 in .45 acp ....so I train with 9mm not the .22 kits ...so I still get some recoil feel. The 1911's with the kits are lighter ..and no recoil ...so they just don't feel the same as the gun in .45 acp....where a full sized 1911, 5" in 9mm does feel the same, as the same gun, in .45acp...

Of my kits - the only one I really don't find acceptable is the kit made by Kimber ...and you aren't considering that one...so for what they are, even given my reservations, I think you'd be happy with the others - if its really what you want.

 

[WVsig]

Thanks guy... That is about what I thought. I shoot a lot of 9mm in BHP and other guns but I dont not have a 1911 in 9mm. It is on the list but I prefer the BHP in 9mm over the 1911.

I might just pass a get a S&W wheel gun. I already have a Ruger MKII so it is no rush.

 

[Pilot]

I can't speak to the others, but I've had the CZ Kadet Kit for about 12 years and it has worked flawlessly on my 75B, and PCR. It is darn accurate also.

 

[Hal]

Of my kits - the only one I really don't find acceptable is the kit made by Kimber

I was under the impression that Ceiner made the conversion for Kimber.
That's what I was told back when I bought a Ceiner conversion for my Kimber.
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I have the Ceiner standard unit with fixed sights & 10 round magazine.

It works & it does what I bought it for - to shoot .22lr ammo using my Kimber.
It's been fine with the Federal bulk pack - however - this goes back several( 10) years. I see a whole lot of posts these days where people are knocking any and all bulk .22 ammo as being unreliable and inaccurate.
I have to wonder if bulk .22 ammo has degraded in the last 10 years.
Other than Remington Thunderbolts, there used to be very, very, very few bad things said about other brands.

My Ceiner never had any problems with any (including Thunderbolts) ammunition I fed it.
Accuracy was so so. Not bad, but not outstanding. Even with fixed sights, it was pleanty accurate enough to "knock that empty Coke can off that fence 25 paces away".

The weak spot of the Ceiner is the cost of an extra magazine. The whole kit is fairly well made. The magazine that came with my kit is very well made.
I would have liked to have a 2nd magazine for it, however, I didn't want one bad enough/need one bad enough to justify spending > $30.00 for one.
Not when the whole kit ran $199.
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I also have a Kadet conversion for my CZ75B - or as I prefer to call it, a Kadet upper.
The Kadet is superb.
(IMHO) The only real weak spot of the Kadet upper, is the CZ75B it sits on.
(I'm not saying that to in any way put down the CZ75B - it's just that I think that much of the Kadet)
With a proper target trigger, the Kadet is in the upper end of "accurate".
It's easily the equal of my Ruger Mark II and both Ruger .22/45's.
It's just a hair above my Buckmark Camper.
My wife's Buckmark Micro is maybe just a tad more accurate.
I would want to live or die on the difference.
My S&W 22/s is more accurate.

Whereabouts are you in WV?
I've been contributing to the general welfare of you state for some time now & get down to Wheeling and Mountaineer on a more regular basis than my wife cares for .
If you're anywhere near either, I'd be happy to toss both in the back of the van & let you try them.

 

[WVsig]

Hal,

Thank you for the info and the kind offer but I am in Souther WV near Beckley.

The CZ is the most expensive of the kits. I can get the Ciener with adjustable sights for about $180 the Sig for about $240 and the CZ for $340.

I have never heard anything negative about the Kadet but is it pricey compared to the others.

 

[BigJimP]

Ceiner used to make Kimber's kits ...but Kimber started making their own kits about 10 yrs ago.

When Kimber started making their kits in house ...they created a problem with any of their guns that have a mag well in them / where the mags will not seat into the gun because of a clearance issue with the mag well ( and its their own mag well - not something from an aftermarket company).

As late as a yr ago ...they still had not corrected the mag and mag-well issue. You can fix it with aftermarket mags - but its aggravating. But if you're going to shoot these kits very long ...you'll want some metal after market mags anyway vs the plastic ones most companies provide in their new kits.

The fit and finish on the Kimber kit ...is nowhere near as good as the old Ceiner kits ....or the new kits coming out of Marvel for Wilson Combat.

 

[Hal]

BigJim,
Good info. Thanks.
It's been well over 10 years since I bought the Ceiner.


WVsig,
No problem. If you ever get up my way, give me a shout.
The offer's good any time.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

If you missed the discussion -- about two weeks ago Jonathan Arthur Ciener was arrested for multiple counts of fraud. I wouldn't be thinking about a Ciener conversion if I were you.

 

[Hammerhead]

I think the Kadet is the best. They do lock open on empty. All steel so the balance of the pistol is unchanged. My Kadet will function with anything including Rem sub-sonics. Accuracy? I haven't done much 25 yard shooting yet, but it looks promising with 40 grain target ammo (CCI SV....) It seems to be the equal of my Mark II.

I had the P220 conversion and it was nice, but needed hotter ammo to cycle. Very light and didn't hold open. Stingers were the most accurate and reliable ammo.

It must be at least 15 years since I've had a Ceiner 1911, so I can't say with any clarity.

 

[chris in va]

I don't know how CZ designed the chamber and ramp, but mine literally feeds/fires anything I can get a hold of.

The only thing I had an issue with was the firing pin locking plate. A few years ago it somehow worked loose and shot the pin and spring into the dirt 5 feet behind me. CZ sent out a new spring and no more pin launches. If the firing pin is depressed far enough the plate slips off for disassembly.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

I'd avoid the Ciener kit -- as I've heard all sorts of horror stories about service, delivery, etc. He may be having some legal problems, too.

If you're going to do 1911, the best kit is a MARVEL kit, which is more costly, but among the most accurate and reliable .22 kits available. Some use it in .22 competition.

The Kadet Kit is superb. I use mine with an 85 Combat, but it can be fit to any (or all) CZ you own. Mine was so accurate that I traded away a Ruger Target Competition (Govt. model, with the long slab-sided barrel) -- it was just as accurate!

 

[surveyor]

i've been on backorder for a advantage arms 1911 target since march...

i've got the kadet kit, and its fantastic..if you put it on a lower with a good single action trigger, its even better..

not picky about ammo either..i usually run atuomatch through it as the other 22's like it as well, but have run other bulk packs without issue..
the best thing to get for it is a modified uplula loader as the mags are tough on the fingers..

den stinnett modifies them to work great at the cz forum.

and, like walt i run it on a 85 combat, but single action trigger..

 

[Noreaster]

My Sig P229 conversion kit is flawless, (with good ammo.) Couldn't be happier.

 

[WVsig]

CZ works on a P01 right?

 

[JWT]

The CZ Kadet isn't inexpensive but it is very good. Worth the money IMO.

 

[hercster]

1911 Conversion

My first kit was a SIG for the P-226. It didn't get a lot of use but overall I wasn't impressed with the materials and manufacturing quality. I bought it as a "plinker" and that is how I would rate it.

That experience convinced me that I wanted a unit that would lock back and I wanted steel rather than aluminum alloy. Eventually I found an STI unit manufactured by Tactical Solutions for my 1911. The fit, finish and materials are all first class. When I ran into performance problems, I contacted Tactical Solutions directly and returned the upper to them. I exchanged emails and telephone conversations with four separate people arranging for the work to be done and ordering some options. The service and overall attitude was just excellent. I just got notice that my problems have been addressed and the upper will be shipped back after just a few days. I'm assuming it will perform flawlessly based on my dealings with this builder. I can't wait to get back to the range.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

The Kadet Kit works on any CZ that has the 75B as its base, either 9mm or .40. (I'm not sure whether the kit will work with the new polymer framed CZs based on the CZ 75design, like the P-07; others here will have to answer that question.)

The Kadet kit is more expensive, as is the Marvel kit (which would be my preference if I had a 1911 that I really liked.)

I think the SIG-made conversion kits are pretty expensive, too.

For about the price of any of these conversion kits, you can also buy a first-quality dedicated .22.

It's a hard choice, given all those variables.

 

[Paul105]

I handn't shot 22s in a while, so I took the P-01 Kadet conversion to the range this afternoon. Ran a 160 rnds of Fed Bulk from Walmart without a hitch. Only reason I didn't shoot more was because it was late and getting cold. This unit is accurate and extremely reliable. Personally, I would much rather have this conversion than a dedicated .22 pistol (which I do have). YMMV.

You need a different slide stop for the Kadet to function on the P-01, otherwise it works great. The slide stop is available from CZ for the asking.

I have a Marvel "Unit 2" .22 Conversion. Mounted on a Colt Delta Elite frame, it hasn't been very reliable. When I got it, the company was having some problems, if I remember correctly -- others recommend them highly.

I had an Advantage Arms Glock M20 (10mm) conversion unit. It was reliable, but only with CCI Stingers, which totally defeated the purpose. I sold it cheap with full disclosure to a guy who used it on a Glock M21 (45 ACP) -- he said it worked great.

Paul