.223 Wylde

[themalicious0ne]

I have been looking at a .223 Wylde chambered AR for quite some time. Specifically an 18" chrome lined upper from PSA. The various research I have found online either seems to be contradicting or incomplete. Theoretically the .223 Wylde can be more accurate than a 5.56 chambered AR. I have also read that this is brand/barrel/money dependant. Is the difference just splitting hairs? This also seems to be somewhat of a "compromise" chamber. I know how you guys love anything that is niche or compromising. To me, a more accurate rifle would be great. What are the downsides however. Is it giving up reliability? I've heard a few people online talk about 5.56 primer pops or having to ream their chambers.

Basically what I am asking is, will a .223 Wylde chamber AR stand on its legs and hold its own against a 5.56 chambered AR, all else being equal, with greater accuracy.

 

[HiBC]

First,I am not a competition shooter,I have not accuracy tested chamberings,to say it bluntly,I don't "know" from experience what I will tell you...at least not from scientific testing.

I believe the Kreiger barrel site discusses this,I'm giving you the best I remember.

It has to do with what bullet weight you will shoot,and whether you will shoot rounds that cannot be mag loaded.

My understanding,which could be wrong:

Mag loaded,up to 77 gr,will work in a .223 chamber

Heavier(80 gr +) loads that must be single loaded will work in the Wylde or 5.56 chamber.The Wylde chamber will be a little more "match" dimensionally

It follows that you will have a little more jump to the rifling with the Wylde and the 5.56.Shooting mag length ammo,this ,ight make no difference,or it might be a compromise.

I am considering buying a match quality AR barrel myself.I do not intend to use ammo I cannot mag feed.A 77 grSierra or 75 gr Hornady would likely be "the load".
At this point,for myself,I think the .223 chamber 1 in 7.7 twist Kreiger would be a first choice....BUT!...As I recognize I could be wrong,I will talk to my barrel maker on the phone,tell him about the ammo I want to shoot,and trust his recommendation.

 

[Mobuck]

Unless, you test a LOT of rifles, you won't get viable results. The variation between barrels may exceed the improvement found in the Wylde chambering. In other words: If you test 5 below average accurate rifles with Wylde chambers and 5 above average with common 5.56 chambers, you might come to a flawed conclusion.

 

[reynolds357]

I have a couple of uppers chambered in Wylde. Most my uppers say 5.56. Three of them say .223 winchester, but the instruction manual for all three plainly says it is safe to shoot 5.56 in them. I long ago came to the conclusion that the .223 and 5.56 are interchangable unless the .223 chamber is cut extremely tight. The Wylde is an answer for a question that best exists on paper and not in practicality.

 

[themalicious0ne]

I am pretty confused by all of your answers. HiBC, thank you for the info regarding the heavier weight bullets. I had read that before as well. If the accuracy increase is only accommodated by the heavier bullets, that is something to think about. This would be my first AR and i was leaning towards a PSA with an 18" barrel and a rifle gas system. I wasn't really sure if i wanted a SS barrel or not but regardless, i am trying to find a reason not to buy a .223 Wylde chambered AR. No one has stated that it is less accurate than a 5.56 chambered AR-15. The pro's that I've read have been a possible accuracy increase. There has to be some reason why ALL AR-15's are not made in a .223 wylde. If it all benefit and no downside, why wouldn't i get one. Tell me why i would ever want a 5.56 chambered AR if the .223 wylde does the same thing as good or better. I don't know how else to put it. I cant find much information about it and i was hoping this post would garner some attention to either praise the .223 wylde or tell me its all hype and internet chatter. My main concern is reliability. If i have to give up reliability for accuracy in any cartridge then i would pass. If i wanted a duty ready AR, should i pass on the .223 wylde?

 

[HJ857]

Since I handload only, I would like to have the option of a .223 chamber rather than a 5.56. So I'm tending to agree with your assumptions. If choosing a barrel and I had a choice between a 5.56 and a Wylde, I'd go with the latter also just based on what actual users report on forums.

I messed with heavier bullets some time ago. From memory the 77 SMK can be loaded to mag length but the 75 Hornady bullets have a different shape and cannot be loaded to mag length and must be loaded surprisingly long.

 

[HiBC]

Hornady makes two dfferent 75 gr bullets.One is the A-max.That one will not load to magazine length.There is also a 75 gr Match bthp.It will load to magazine length.

 

[reynolds357]

Malicious, 5.56 is the military standard. As lond as it is their standard, it will be dominant in sales.

 

[dgludwig]

Basically what I am asking is, will a .223 Wylde chamber AR stand on its legs and hold its own against a 5.56 chambered AR, all else being equal, with greater accuracy.

I don't know if this will help answer your question or not, but Rock River, a company that uses the .223 Wylde chamber for most of their AR-15 National Match rifles designed for serious target competition, provided the following explanation: " The .223 Wylde chamber was designed as a match chambering for semi-automatic rifles. It will accomodate both .223 Remington and 5.56 NATO ammunition. It is relieved in the case body to aid in extraction and features a shorter throat for improved accuracy." (emphasis mine)

 

[themalicious0ne]

Thank you for your help and input guys.

 

[Kimber84]

I have an Armalite with a Wylde chamber, I can't say as to how it compares to a standard 5.56 chambering, but it shoots lights out. With 60 grain bullets I'm consistently making hits at 600 yards on steel, and 500 yards is no issue at all.

It also loves Hornady 60 g Vmax bullets on front of some RL-15, absolute tack driver.

I've tried 55, 69, and 77 g bullets and they've all shot just as well.

 

[Gary L. Griffiths]

It also loves Hornady 60 g Vmax bullets on front of some RL-15, absolute tack driver.

I've got a couple of ARs with Douglas stainless med-con barrels in .223 Wylde with 1:8 twists. The Hornady 60-gr Vmax bullets on top of 25.5 grs of Varget are just scary accurate. Have had several one-hole groups at 100 yds from a rest.

FWIW, my understanding of the Wylde chambering is that it is dimensionally the same as the .223 Rem but with additional "leade" equivalent to the 5.56mm chambering. Essentially just the opposite of what dgludwig quotes Rock River as saying. The concern about shooting 5.56 in .223 chambers is that the 5.56 is loaded to a higher pressure, and without the additional leade of the 5.56 or .223 Wylde chambering, the pressure may peak much higher -- perhaps high enough to be dangerous. The Wylde chamber is for those who want accuracy over reliability while shooting 5.56mm spec ammo.

 

[HiBC]

I was just poking around in Zedicker's book on building AR's,and he confirms what Gary G just said...If you want to shoot NATO spec ammo,go Wylde or 5.56.

The .223 throat will elevate pressure with 5.56 NATO ammo.

Information you did not ask for:If fine accuracy is your goal,as a general rule you give up some for a chrome lined barrel.That is not to say chrome barrels won't shoot well,but you can do a little better non chrome.

However,a chrome barrel will shoot more rounds before it wears out,and,it takes rapid fire better.

I know you are looking at a PSA upper,but I built a rifle with a Daniel Defense 18 in bbl.It is chrome lined.Hammer forged.I got the "S2W" contour,that is "strength to weight".What they did is made an AR barrel about like a conventional sporter barrel contour;tapered.

I get about MOA+ at 100 yds.I'd recommend it.(75 gr Hornady,Re15)

 

[dgludwig]

Information you did not ask for:If fine accuracy is your goal,as a general rule you give up some for a chrome lined barrel.

That's my understanding as well. Last I checked, all of the "National Match" rifles Rock River makes for serious "Bullseye" shooting come with barrels made from s/s, whereas most of their "non-competition" rifles use chrome-lined barrels.

 

[Theohazard]

There has to be some reason why ALL AR-15's are not made in a .223 wylde. If it all benefit and no downside, why wouldn't i get one.

Most AR-15s are chambered in 5.56 because the military only uses the 5.56 cartridge, and people want what the military uses. It's the same reason most AR-15s have chrome lining and 1:7 barrels: Nitriding is better than chrome and most civilians would be better off with a 1:9 (or at least a 1:8), but the military uses chrome lining and 1:7 barrels so that's what sells.

 

[themalicious0ne]

Accuracy to me is somewhat secondary. I just kind of figured, if it works as well, why not have a slight accuracy boost. The other issue is chrome lining. I would prefer a chrome lined barrel over a SS. I shoot quite a bit and could see myself wearing out a SS barrel pretty fast. I am concerned because the upper I am looking at sounds perfect but I have read that getting a 223 wylde chamber with a chromed lined barrel could be dangerous due to inaccuracies in the chrome liming process. The upper in particular is an 18" chrome lined .223 wylde chambered upper with a rifle length gas system. For the time being, im not sure that I want to spend over $1000 on an AR-15. I would like an 18" barrel, a rifle length gas system, and chrome lined. Accuracy would be very nice. My issue is of the 18" uppers PSA sells, the 223 wylde chambered one is the only one with a rifle length gas system and a 1 in 8 twist. (which I like) They are the only manufacturer along with a 20" RRA who use a chrome lined barrel. I had read that this is difficult to do because of the inconsistencies of the thickness of the chrome lining. If the chamber is .224 and the chrome lining is thick, it could cause dangerous pressures.

Sorry if I am rambling guys, or being difficult. Everything I want seems to coincide with this upper, I am just skeptical.

 

[Gary L. Griffiths]

Tell me why i would ever want a 5.56 chambered AR if the .223 wylde does the same thing as good or better.

You answered your own question:

My main concern is reliability.

The Wylde chambering will give you a little more accuracy at the expense of reliability. Ordinarily for us civilians, it's still plenty reliable enough; but for the military where ammo may be beat up, muddy, have sand in it, be corroded, or be slightly out of spec, the larger chamber will work reliably with ammo that the Wylde would not. The downside is that you lose some accuracy and the brass will expand more, lowering the life expectancy of your cases should you be a reloader.

FWIW, whoever wrote that Wylde chambers with chrome-lined barrels were dangerous was an idiot. No reputable manufacturer would put out a barrel so out-of-spec as to be dangerous.

Bottom line: If dead-nuts reliability is your goal, get a 5.56mm. If decent reliability combined with slightly greater accuracy and brass life are acceptable compromises, get a Wylde chamber. If top accuracy is your goal, get a .223 and forego shooting 5.56mm spec ammo in it.