Hi, I wanted to get some advice on 223 rifles. I have a ruger hawkey I purchased and it's 1:9 twist barrel is very finicky. I haven't found any loads that are real consistent. Probably 1.3-2" 100 yard groups. I was hoping to find a nice 223 load that will consistenly print 1/2 inch groups without having to stand on my head and do a vodooo dance reloading to get it to shoot. I have been considering buying a second 223 in another make. I handled the Remington VTR the other day. The weight and balance are good. I've fired my friends model 7 and it's a nice smooth gun. I also like the CZ american and saw the full camo predator that looked interesting. I was wondering what would be a good mid/hunter weight .223 that would consistenly group 1/2" or less at 100 yards with 55 to 69 grain bullets. Does such a rifle exist? Thanks in advance. rc
223 varmint/hunter
- Thread starter rc
- Start date
I'm pretty partial to my CZ 527 American in .223. It prefers 55gr fodder and shoots very well. Not sure it will hold sub MOA all day, but it comes pretty darned close at 100yards. It's more that adequate for prairie dogs, ground squirrel, coyote and such. I enjoy all three of my CZ rifles.
stubbicatt
New member
+1 on my CZ.
However, before giving up on your rifle, you might run the dollar bill test down the barrel channel to see that it is free floated, and perhaps pay your gunsmith to glass bed or pillar bed the action, and clean up the crown. Many a mediocre rifle has been rescued like this.
However, before giving up on your rifle, you might run the dollar bill test down the barrel channel to see that it is free floated, and perhaps pay your gunsmith to glass bed or pillar bed the action, and clean up the crown. Many a mediocre rifle has been rescued like this.
squidbilly
New member
VTR all the way!
What is the trigger like? Ruger's are notorious for their "Lawyer Proof" triggers. If you haven't done a trigger job, you might want to consider it. Take it to a good gunsmith to have it done.
I'll bet you can get that rifle to shoot, not that I'm against getting another rifle by any means. I'll bet you can get this rifle to a sub 1" rifle with a little work. What have you done besides try different loads in this rifle?
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
Me, I'd do some tweaking on the rifle before worrying about something different. Free-float the forearm and try it. Then, maybe add a shim at the forearm tip, maybe five pounds of pull to separate barrel and stock to insert a home-made shim. (I use a 3/4" strip of kitchen wax paper, folded back and forth until thick enough. Trim with razor.)
Then, different brands of ammo, or different sorts of reloads.
I'm taking it for granted that the OP's groups are from a well-sandbagged benchrest...
Then, different brands of ammo, or different sorts of reloads.
I'm taking it for granted that the OP's groups are from a well-sandbagged benchrest...
kayakersteve
New member
RC
For most varmits, you are probably fine with the groupings you are getting - I dont typically shoot beyond 150-200 yards, so I could still stop a woodchuck with what you mentioned. But if you are looking for the 1/2" groups, the previous tips should help. I even use my mini-14 with a Burris Speed dot and get them out to 75-100 yards on a regular basis. Good luck.
For most varmits, you are probably fine with the groupings you are getting - I dont typically shoot beyond 150-200 yards, so I could still stop a woodchuck with what you mentioned. But if you are looking for the 1/2" groups, the previous tips should help. I even use my mini-14 with a Burris Speed dot and get them out to 75-100 yards on a regular basis. Good luck.
I'm surprised no one has asked what seems to me to be obvious: What kind of scope, what kind of ammo are you using? Many tight twist barrels do not shoot light bullets well. I would try some Federal Gold Medal Match ammo in the rifle if I were trying to determine how accurate it is.
What kind of scope are you using? Are the rings tight? Are you shooting off of a sturdy bench and using sandbags? I am always amazed at how many shooters try to shoot for groups using a folding metal chair and a piece of rolled-up carpet.
What is the trigger like on your rifle?
And last of all, what is your experience level shooting groups?
All of this is not intended to be insulting to you, it is a troube-shooting tree of the most common problems with rifle accuracy.
What kind of scope are you using? Are the rings tight? Are you shooting off of a sturdy bench and using sandbags? I am always amazed at how many shooters try to shoot for groups using a folding metal chair and a piece of rolled-up carpet.
What is the trigger like on your rifle?
And last of all, what is your experience level shooting groups?
All of this is not intended to be insulting to you, it is a troube-shooting tree of the most common problems with rifle accuracy.
ZX10Aviator
New member
my stevens 200 savage .223 is 1:9 twist, Ive had 69 gr HPBT do just under 1/4" at 100yds, and Im working a load with 52gr hpbt's that looks just as promising.
More info
I put a weaver grand slam 6-24 power scope with the dot and fine cross hairs on this gun using the supplied rings. Not sure if this is part of my problem as the dot is sometimes a bit hard to pick up. I've hand loaded some 65gr sierra soft points, 69 grain hornady hpbt and some gopher loads with 45 grain remington's and blue dot. The blue dot loads were impressive at 50 yards. Other full power loads were not so impressive at 100. The Hawkeye is a 1:9 twist and the trigger is a bit heavy. I do need to polish the engagements a bit more to reduce the pull. The 308 ruger stainless/laminate I have shoots much more consistently than this composite stocked .223 with a burris 3-9 scope. The .223 of course is more suited for shooting varmints or punching paper for longer pieriods of time. rc
I put a weaver grand slam 6-24 power scope with the dot and fine cross hairs on this gun using the supplied rings. Not sure if this is part of my problem as the dot is sometimes a bit hard to pick up. I've hand loaded some 65gr sierra soft points, 69 grain hornady hpbt and some gopher loads with 45 grain remington's and blue dot. The blue dot loads were impressive at 50 yards. Other full power loads were not so impressive at 100. The Hawkeye is a 1:9 twist and the trigger is a bit heavy. I do need to polish the engagements a bit more to reduce the pull. The 308 ruger stainless/laminate I have shoots much more consistently than this composite stocked .223 with a burris 3-9 scope. The .223 of course is more suited for shooting varmints or punching paper for longer pieriods of time. rc
The CZ is a good rifle but
for that kind of accuracy (almost guarantee it
) you should look at the Savage. I have two in 223, two in 204 and 4 others all of which will usually do better than a 1/2MOA. I have gotten lots of 1/4 MOA groups with both of my 223's. Get the VLP model with the wood stock. You won't be disappointed.
for that kind of accuracy (almost guarantee it
) you should look at the Savage. I have two in 223, two in 204 and 4 others all of which will usually do better than a 1/2MOA. I have gotten lots of 1/4 MOA groups with both of my 223's. Get the VLP model with the wood stock. You won't be disappointed.I doubt it is the scope that Weaver should hold up fine to the recoil of the .223.
I'd get away from Blue Dot powder and go with something like Ramshot Tac/X-Terminator or H331. Get a powder designed for the .223 and try that. Blue Dot is a shotgun powder, which if you are not careful with can go over pressure real fast. I know people who shoot Blue Dot in their .22 CF rifles, but it never gave me a warm and fuzzy.
Besides changing powders, I'd do this or replace the trigger completely. I'll bet your groups will improve.
I'd get away from Blue Dot powder and go with something like Ramshot Tac/X-Terminator or H331. Get a powder designed for the .223 and try that. Blue Dot is a shotgun powder, which if you are not careful with can go over pressure real fast. I know people who shoot Blue Dot in their .22 CF rifles, but it never gave me a warm and fuzzy.
Besides changing powders, I'd do this or replace the trigger completely. I'll bet your groups will improve.
I agree with that.
I have a Tikka Tactical in .223. When I first got it, I couldn't resist firing a few hundred yard groups with my standard M193 load. They weren't _horrible_ groups but they were nowhere near what I was expecting. I decided I wanted to ensure that brass fired in my AR didn't end up in the Tikka (or vice versa). And I wanted to use the best brass I could get in the Tikka for my accuracy loads. So I decided to basically treat it as a different caliber. I even got another set of .223 dies to use only with the Tikka. So everything can be custom setup for that bolt gun rather than with brass that was worked for an AR.
I went to Midway and bought Lapua .223 brass. Made me wince. But I'm a believer. Everything I've tried in that brass and with the dedicated dies has been a winner. Sometimes amazingly tight groups. If I pick up a box of .223 and it has Lapau headstamps, I know for SURE it is meant for the Tikka. Anything else... AR's.
Buy good brass. Don't cross brass or reloading equipment with the bolt gun and the AR-15. And use the kinds of powder that are listed as provided top velocities AND accuracy in .223 bolt guns.
Gregg