Chris Phelps
New member
I am looking for another plinking rifle chambered for .223... preferaby semiauto... for 400 to 600 Meters. Something that isnt too terribly expencive (maybe $400 ballpark). Any suggestions?
.223 (preferably semi) for long range plinking (400-600M)
- Thread starter Chris Phelps
- Start date
kirbymagnum
New member
What will your targets be?
FirstFreedom
Moderator
You really need a 1 in 7.5" twist to shoot effectively at those long ranges, to stabilize the heavy bullets you'll need to use (75 to 80 gr). And unfortunately, I know of no stock rifles in that price range with that twist rate. You could try it with a 1 in 9 and lighter bullets (62-70 gr), but wind drift is gonna be a bastage at those ranges.
for what your asking, i think that name a AR-15 to the T. A 1 in 9" twist will stabilize a 75gr. A-max, which is a fine bullet for 400-600 yards. A 1 in 8" twist will allow you to use the 80 gr. bullets. You can go with a 1 in 7" or 1 in 6.5" for 75gr. to 90gr. but i cant see needing it. A target AR-15 will vary greatly, as little as 600 or so, to as much as 2-4 thousand. it seem for a pre-built Target AR-15, $1000 is a common price. My DPMS was $1270 and is a fine gun. A Savage 10fp could be bought for around 500 bucks and has the 1 in 9" twist which i think would work fine for you. Something to keep in mind though, if buy a plinker and shoot plinking ammo, your going to shoot plinking groups. If you buy a target rifle and shoot cheap plinking ammo through it, you'll get ok groups. But if you buy a target gun, and put target ammo through it, then you'll get the groups you want for 600m shooting. I doesn't make any sence to spend 500-1000 bucks on a quality rifle, and shoot dime a round ammo through it.
Good luck to ya
Good luck to ya
Chris Phelps
New member
Which is precicely why I capped it below $500. For $510, I can buy a kit (less the lower reciever) from model one. Dont flame... I have read good things about them both here and on AR15.com
Man, I have to start reading up about that stuff.
My friend with a 1-in-7 twist Bushmaster likes to try medium long range shots. Most days with even a moderate wind, he has few misses off-paper at 400 yards with Sierra 90-grain MatchKing bullets, and otherwise very good results. On a clear day or with some luck, he's had outstanding results. 1-in-7 is really recommended, though. Those 80gr and 90gr Match bullets are fantastic at those distances.
7 vs 9 twist
Ok, it makes sense that a 1 in 7 twist will help stabalize the heaver rounds. However, does a 1 in 7 twist hurt anything? Will it hurt the lighter rounds, I mean, which Bushmaster claims is "optimal" for the lighter rounds? I have often wondered about this, though I imagine it wouldn't be detrimental.
Cheers
Nick
Ok, it makes sense that a 1 in 7 twist will help stabalize the heaver rounds. However, does a 1 in 7 twist hurt anything? Will it hurt the lighter rounds, I mean, which Bushmaster claims is "optimal" for the lighter rounds? I have often wondered about this, though I imagine it wouldn't be detrimental.
Cheers
Nick
High twist and low weight bullet = very high spin that might pull the bullet apart in flight.
My Father-in-Law has a 220 swift that has a 1-8 or 1-7 ( I can't remember off the top of my head), he had a couple of 44 gr bullets left over from another porject loads them up and about 1/8 didn't make it to the target. Just a little cloud of lead, if you looked up quick enough.
fanoblack
My Father-in-Law has a 220 swift that has a 1-8 or 1-7 ( I can't remember off the top of my head), he had a couple of 44 gr bullets left over from another porject loads them up and about 1/8 didn't make it to the target. Just a little cloud of lead, if you looked up quick enough.
fanoblack
With my 1 in 8" twist, i cant shoot Speer TNT's at all, and i can't shoot hornady's Soft point super explosives at anywhere near max.
I realize you put a price range on you gun, i just thought i'd mention the AR-15 since i love mine. Other than an AR-15 or other high end semi auto's, i don't think your going to find a semi auto that will shoot as well as your looking for. I still think you'd really injoy a savage, but a H&R single shot would be about half the price of the varmint savage.
I realize you put a price range on you gun, i just thought i'd mention the AR-15 since i love mine. Other than an AR-15 or other high end semi auto's, i don't think your going to find a semi auto that will shoot as well as your looking for. I still think you'd really injoy a savage, but a H&R single shot would be about half the price of the varmint savage.
I'm not aware of a gun you are requesting, semi-auto under $500.00. An AR-15 is going to be about your only choice for those distances. You won't get the correct twist rate you will need to stabilize heavier bullets and those distances, 400-600M with anything but an AR. Good Luck on your search. hpg
With my 1 in 8" twist, i cant shoot Speer TNT's at all, and i can't shoot hornady's Soft point super explosives at anywhere near max.
I realize you put a price range on you gun, i just thought i'd mention the AR-15 since i love mine. Other than an AR-15 or other high end semi auto's, i don't think your going to find a semi auto that will shoot as well as your looking for. I still think you'd really injoy a savage, but a H&R single shot would be about half the price of the varmint savage.
I realize you put a price range on you gun, i just thought i'd mention the AR-15 since i love mine. Other than an AR-15 or other high end semi auto's, i don't think your going to find a semi auto that will shoot as well as your looking for. I still think you'd really injoy a savage, but a H&R single shot would be about half the price of the varmint savage.
CypherNinja
New member
With the price range you listed, you'll probably be limited to finding a good deal on an inexpensive, used, bolt gun and fitting an aftermarket barrel.
Lycanthrope
New member
I've spun a lot of 55gr through a 1:7. Never tried anything less.
Why not buy a Kit AR and get a 1:7 barrel later.......
Why not buy a Kit AR and get a 1:7 barrel later.......
Chris Phelps
New member
This is the one I will probably go with. I have read a lot about the "dreaded" model 1 rifles, but it appears they go the same route as taurus.... Good rifles with an undeserved bad rep.
These kits come with a 1 in 9 twist, but I can change the barrel out at a later date.
Why is it that companies like bushmaster and dpms ofer a 1 in 9 or 1 in 12 twist if 1 in 7 is better for distance shooting?
These kits come with a 1 in 9 twist, but I can change the barrel out at a later date.
Why is it that companies like bushmaster and dpms ofer a 1 in 9 or 1 in 12 twist if 1 in 7 is better for distance shooting?
Lycanthrope
New member
Nice varminter.
1:12 won't stabilize the heavier bullets, they'll tumble. It's a varmint twist.
1:9 is a goord compromise and will run 55gr-69gr from my experience. 1:7 is needed when you go to the high end...like 80gr. 1:7 will throat the barrel a bit sooner.
My service rifle was a White Oak Precision 1:7 that would shoot .5 MOA with the 69gr SMK. It was my first tack-driving AR. 600 yards is common in CMP shooting.
Later, I bought a Clark Gator upper. Those are guaranteed to run .5 MOA with handloads. It didn't disappoint although it differred with a 1:9 twist. It's application is a bit different as it is primarily a 3 gun rifle and shooting to 600 is rare in that arena.
I've had some others along the way and all were good rifles if I kept everything tight on the bolt carrier. I've ran several hundred through them all at one time and never had any issues to a "dirty" AR. Since I expect max accuracy, non were chrome lined. You'll find that A LOT of AR's are using the same or comparative parts. Many manufacturers use Wilson or Shaw barrels.....mostly Wilson. Model 1 uses Shaw.
This last year I built a Model 1 kit to have a beater/bump fire AR that I could run a few thousand of Wolf through and not worry about degrading accuracy. I have several heavy barrel AR's so I went with the pencil barrel, lightweight CAR kit (something the girlfriend could shoot, too). The kit's finish was really good when mated to a Stag lower and oiled up.
The only part that needed work was the bolt release button. It needed reamed with a drill bit to slide easily over it's pin. Check the pin first before you try to install it.
Anyhow, I broke her in by cleaning after every shot/few shots for 100 or so rounds and ran a few hundred Wolf through her. No problems. A few weeks ago in a warm spell I went out for some bench work. I loaded up some 69gr Sierra Match Kings over 24.5gr of Varget and CCI 400 primers. All my guns have loved this load.
I bagged her in good and squeezed off three. It has the "15 minute trigger job" to get the pull down to about 4lbs.
That's under 3/4 MOA from a "junk" AR that isn't even free floated. I've had some good AR's in my stable and have read all the negatives about these guns. There are a couple people who cracked bolts .....a long time ago. There appear to be no recent problems. Even if I would crack one, I could replace it with a chrome plated bolt and still be under the price of a new AR.
Anyhow, I'd get that kit and break her in well (clean after every shot with CLP patch, then dry patch for 50-100....don't let her get hot). Then I'd shoot it and shoot it and shoot it. Later I'd rebarrel with a Krieger, Compass Lake, or White Oak Precision barrel.
1:12 won't stabilize the heavier bullets, they'll tumble. It's a varmint twist.
1:9 is a goord compromise and will run 55gr-69gr from my experience. 1:7 is needed when you go to the high end...like 80gr. 1:7 will throat the barrel a bit sooner.
My service rifle was a White Oak Precision 1:7 that would shoot .5 MOA with the 69gr SMK. It was my first tack-driving AR. 600 yards is common in CMP shooting.
Later, I bought a Clark Gator upper. Those are guaranteed to run .5 MOA with handloads. It didn't disappoint although it differred with a 1:9 twist. It's application is a bit different as it is primarily a 3 gun rifle and shooting to 600 is rare in that arena.
I've had some others along the way and all were good rifles if I kept everything tight on the bolt carrier. I've ran several hundred through them all at one time and never had any issues to a "dirty" AR. Since I expect max accuracy, non were chrome lined. You'll find that A LOT of AR's are using the same or comparative parts. Many manufacturers use Wilson or Shaw barrels.....mostly Wilson. Model 1 uses Shaw.
This last year I built a Model 1 kit to have a beater/bump fire AR that I could run a few thousand of Wolf through and not worry about degrading accuracy. I have several heavy barrel AR's so I went with the pencil barrel, lightweight CAR kit (something the girlfriend could shoot, too). The kit's finish was really good when mated to a Stag lower and oiled up.
The only part that needed work was the bolt release button. It needed reamed with a drill bit to slide easily over it's pin. Check the pin first before you try to install it.
Anyhow, I broke her in by cleaning after every shot/few shots for 100 or so rounds and ran a few hundred Wolf through her. No problems. A few weeks ago in a warm spell I went out for some bench work. I loaded up some 69gr Sierra Match Kings over 24.5gr of Varget and CCI 400 primers. All my guns have loved this load.
I bagged her in good and squeezed off three. It has the "15 minute trigger job" to get the pull down to about 4lbs.
That's under 3/4 MOA from a "junk" AR that isn't even free floated. I've had some good AR's in my stable and have read all the negatives about these guns. There are a couple people who cracked bolts .....a long time ago. There appear to be no recent problems. Even if I would crack one, I could replace it with a chrome plated bolt and still be under the price of a new AR.
Anyhow, I'd get that kit and break her in well (clean after every shot with CLP patch, then dry patch for 50-100....don't let her get hot). Then I'd shoot it and shoot it and shoot it. Later I'd rebarrel with a Krieger, Compass Lake, or White Oak Precision barrel.
Chris Phelps
New member
Yes sir. My 2nd post in this thread:
FirstFreedom
Moderator
Of course, having said all that, if you live in a place with no wind, then a 40 grainer and a 1 in 12 is all you need for punching paper. 