223 powders - BL(C)-2 and IMR3031

[603Country]

So back when the world was short of powder, and I couldn't find H335, I decided I needed to try some other powders and was able to get a good supply of the two mentioned above. BL(C)-2 seems to work about as well as the H335, though more workup is needed. I never have tried 3031 in the 223. Any words of wisdom from any of you guys on these powders and your experience with them in the 223 would be appreciated.

 

[Kosh75287]

I believe the IMR-3031 is somewhat faster burning than H335 or BL(C)-2, so I suspect you'll hit max at a lower charge weight. Beyond that, I found that it worked well in .223 Remington and 8x57mm Mauser (EXCELLENT groups in this application). As I recall, I was not in love with the way it metered.

 

[Unclenick]

Yes. BL-C(2) is the same powder at H335, but with heavier deterrent coating to give it a slower relative burn rate. It is canister grade WC846, while H335 is canister grade WC844. The first military use found WC846 (7.62 ball powder) too slow for good performance with 55 grain bullets in 5.56, but they had an extra fast lot lying around that had been disqualified for 7.62, and when they tried in 5.56 with that bullet weight, it was satisfactory. They asked St. Marks to make the faster WC846 on purpose for 5.56, which they did, but gave it the name WC844 to distinguish it from slower lots intended for 7.62 ammo.

IMR3031 will work fine. It is bulkier. You may not be able to get full velocity from it, but it is more than fine for function.

 

[TATER]

Yep,
3031 is the powder that Eugene Stoner and Jim Sullivan were working with in scaling down the AR10 and developing the AR15. I forget how I know that...

 

[pathdoc]

I shoot a Savage Axis II, and did a load workup with IMR3031 a little while back, using Hornady cases (once fired, neck sized), CCI BR-4 primers, IMR3031 and 55gn Hornady V-max projectiles.

Shooting 4-shot groups, everything was sub MOA to 22gn, where the group size suddenly shrank - markedly (3 shots in less than 0.4 inch, 4th pulled). After that, it grew.

A few things to bear in mind:

1) Careful load workup from minimum is of course essential. My sweet spot is only 0.8gn below maximum in my rifle.

2) This is from a bolt gun; if you're shooting a self-loader, I have no experience with them and can't help you as to suitability.

3) Bart B will almost certainly come along at some stage and say four-shot clusters mean nothing. If your sport is extended strings of fire at small vermin or paper targets at long range, he's got a point. Occasional targets from a cold bore may be a different matter.

4) Your rifle may not like the same loads as my rifle, and you may not get the same velocities or indeed sufficient velocity for your use. I was shooting paper for group size and the fun of it, and did not chronograph; you may be shooting live game and require a particular level of energy at the target. I state what I got for the record.

 

[603Country]

I've done some workups with BL(C)-2 behind the 40 gr Ballistic Tip, but I haven't gotten it to shoot quite as well as the H335, which is why I said I had more workups to do. As for the 3031, I use it for a medium load in the grandson's 308, but never tried it in the 223. And, I never hear anyone talk about 3031 in their 223, though I know it's workable. I've got plenty of it now, so we'll see how it works out. Max velocity doesn't mean as much to me as accuracy, and the H335 was sure giving me that.

I wonder if the 3031 would shine more with heavier bullets. If so, I'll try it out behind the Nosler 64 gr BSB.

And I don't often shoot 10 shot groups. I understand Bart's logic, but I'm happy with the way I do it. Once I have the workup done, and have decided on a load, bullet, and powder, I'll load up 50 or so and then test them over time with 1, 2, or 3 shot groups from a cold barrel. If they keep printing where they should be printing, I'll load up more.

And UncleNick, thanks much for the info on the powders. Very interesting.

 

[Greg Mercurio]

BL-C(2) powder is my go to standard. Until I run out of it, which won't be anytime soon. That's a 10 round group below.

 

[Bart B.]

One 4-shot cluster shows what those four shots did. Shoot another one on that same target without changing the sights every day for the next four days. The 20-shot composite represents the accuracy pretty good. That composite is a lot bigger than the first 4-shot one. And each day's 4-shot group center's not at the same place.

Extruded (stick) powders have traditionally produced better accuracy than ball powders in .223 Rem size cases for decades. 4895 or H332 are excellent.

 

[603Country]

Yes, there are probably many powders as good or better than the 3031, and I'd as soon stay with the H335. But...after weeks of unsuccessfully searching for the 335, Cabela's had some 3031. I think I'm going to have case capacity issues that won't let me get high MV with the 40 grainers, but I was thinking that a stick powder would be worth a try for good accuracy. I'll just see what happens, and it's always good to have load data on other powders, and I enjoy the workup process. I'm gonna have to kill a lot of paper and coyotes to burn up the 223 powders I have on hand. Tough job, but I'm up to it.

 

[LBEE]

Powder

I have great results with Varget powder for my 223...Meters very well since it's a Ball Powder.

 

[603Country]

If your Varget is a ball powder, then my Varget must be from a different lot number

 

[rocket12]

hummm, my varget is a stick powder

 

[Panfisher]

Ironic in that I kept looking for BLC and couldnt find it but H335 was plentiful so I bought some of it. What was you go to load for the H335?

 

[flashhole]

I found 3031 to be an accurate powder in a 223 bolt gun but it was pretty dirty compared to others I use. H-4895 worked best for me using bullets 63 grains and heavier.

 

[Unclenick]

I think that's probably because of IMR3031's low bulk density. QuickLOAD suggests that with a 50 grain bullet a case filled 100% with 3031 will run at a peak pressure of around 36,000 psi. To low to burn cleanly. I know Hodgdon shows it doing rather better than that, and maybe that's because their sample is closer to median than Herr Broehmel's was, but your observation of it being dirty suggests pressure was low, too. So I'm not sure who to believe here. Did you do any chronographing of it?

 

[603Country]

Panfisher, I was pushing the 40 gr Nosler BT with the H335. Load was a bit less than 1 gr under max.

I did some more looking at potential loads for the 3031 and it appears that I'm case limited with the 40 grainer if I want a high mv (the volume density that UncleNick mentioned). Still, I'll give it a try and see what the accuracy looks like.

 

[flashhole]

I did not put any 3031 loads through a chrono. I had the powder on hand for 45-70 and folks on the different forums piqued my interest to use 3031 for 223 loads. FWIW it's not my choice for 45-70 either although some swear by it as being the "only" powder for 45-70.

My choice for 223 is not difficult to understand, good accuracy, clean barrel and action ... good accuracy, dirty barrel and action. I'm not lazy when it comes to cleaning my guns but if given a choice I will choose the easier route. My 223 test loads were with heavy 63-68 grain bullets. Others may have a different experience.