.223 defense ammo: 55-62gr or 69-77gr ?

Z

Zak Smith

New member
I just acquired a new platform for launching .223. One of the roles of this rifle will be defense. It has a 16" barrel with 1/8" twist..

What ammo will be better at close-ranges and ranges out to 200-300 yards?

Choice 1 - Go with the standard M193 (55gr) or M855 (62gr, "green tip"). These loadings have devastating terminal effects when the impact velocity is over 2700 fps. With a muzzle velocity from 16" of about 3130fps (M193) and 2990 (M855), these both slow down past 2700fps just beyond 100 yards. (I don't have the exact distances handy, but it's around 120 yards, I think.) Thus, below 2700 or beyond around 120 yards, these will not fragment and have terminal effects more like .22LR than a "real" rifle.

Choice 2 - Go with something like the Hornady TAP 60gr. I don't know what terminal velocities these require for proper penetration and expansion. I chrono'd this load at 2990 fps from a 20" barrel, so I'd expect around 2900 from the 16" barrel.

And now, the option that most interests me right now:

Choice 3 - A load based on the Hornady 75gr HPBT or the 68gr JHP. These should have a muzzle velocity around 2700-2800. They obviously start out slower than the others, but since their terminal effects are not so dependent upon high velocity, they should still expand even at lower velocities. A bullet in the 70-80gr range seems more substantial than a "little" 55/62 grain pill. In quantitative terms, they will have much more sectional "momentum". Heck, in .243, 70 and 80 grain bullets are fine for hunting.

Choice 4 - A load based on the other heavy "match" bullets, like the Sierra Matchking 69/77 grain. These should be about the same as Choice 3, but have a different bullet construction. I have no idea how their terminal effects compare.

What bullet and loading is used in the Army's new "SPR" ?

thanks
Zak
 
J

Jamie Young

New member
My Bear repelent gun is a Ranch Mini 14, with 30rds of 69gr HPBT.


The M193 rounds (if its the good hot Military stuff) is the best round out to 300yds. IMHO

The M855 has a drastic accuracy advantage over the M193 past that. On a windy day hitting anything past 400yds with the 55gr can be difficult. I can put my M855 rounds into a 12inch circle at 500yds with my AR. The M193 gets lost in the wind at that range.

The 69gr are just exotic. I figure it will penetrate meat better than the 55gr and has more "smack" than the steel core M855.

I shoot those three bullet weights all the time. I'd take the M193 over all the others most of the time. Especially when using anything less than a 16inch barrel.
 
Z

Zak Smith

New member
Loaded for Bear.

If we're talking BEARS, I'm definitely grabbing a FAL and a mag full of 150gr FMJ or 168gr bonded-core..

Consider this question to be about anything smaller than a grizzly.

-z
 
J

Jamie Young

New member
Black Bear in PA aren't much bigger than most of the deer. There are big ones but most are in the 250lb range. I got a fat friend that's pretty close to 250lbs. I'd probable use a FAL if I ever had to put him down.
 
C

cpileri

New member
fast and light...

How about those little CorBons: 45gr at 3800fps? (dont know the test bbl length, though)

And as an aside question: what factory loaded 223 would you use in a 7.5" bbl upper for indoor defense? the CorBon may still be fast enough to fragment in such a short barrel, but the others may not.

Any thoughts?
C-
 
A

Art Eatman

Staff in Memoriam
I imagine any soft-point bullet of 55 grains or more will change a guy's mind from aggression to "Oops! I goofed!"

From curiosity: If you're in an urban setting, aren't the odds greatly against shots at 200 to 300 yards? If you can see them, they can see you--bummer--or you'd be signifying your position. And, what are your neighbors doing?

If you're in a rural setting, aren't there other cartridges which would be far more useful at the more-probable longer ranges? And, I'd think, with more likely fewer Bad Guys?

Who's pulling guard duty?

:), Art
 
B

Bartholomew Roberts

Moderator
Choice 1 - Well, you understand the issue well enough. These will have their best terminal performance at less than 100yds. Under 100, they will be pretty competitive with most other rounds and better than some you mention. Outside of 100yds, performance will begin to suffer from a 16" barrel but then again, how often will you be justified in shooting something outside of 100yds with FMJ?

Choice 2 - If you go by the FBI tests, the 60gr TAP (and all TAP loads except the 75gr) are shallow penetrators that don't meet the requirements established by the FBI.

Choice 3 - This is my personal favorite. The 75gr has good penetration and fragmentation over the widest range and it is right on the edge of what you can use in a 1/9 twist. The 68gr is constructed about the same and meets all the FBI criteria; but is inferior to the 75gr on terminal performance. It can be used in a wider range of rifles though. This is a popular round with military and law enforcement.

Choice 4 - Several military and law enforcement organizations use these rounds also. One thing that concerns me about them is the long "neck" before the bullet begins to yaw/fragment. It is about 4-5" long on the 77gr. That means it is entirely possible that the round would exit a target before fragmentation began and you lose the only terminal edge that 5.56mm has.
 
Z

Zak Smith

New member
One thing I haven't been able to find yet are the penetration depths and fragmentation results for the rounds besides the M855 and M193, e.g. the various TAP, the SMK.

For example: How does terminal velocity affect the expansion and effectiveness of the 75gr TAP, the 69gr TAP, the 77 SMK? (Bartholemew Roberts alluded to some data for the 77gr.)

Over on AR15.com, I was able to find these numbers, but with no reference to the source data:

From 16" barrel:
40gr TAP: 3335fps 5.13"
55gr TAP: 2910fps 8"
60gr TAP: 2818fps 10"
75gr TAP: 2616fps 13.6"

Can anyone direct me to a compilation of data on the terminal effects of different .223 loads vs. their impact velocity?

I checked on FirearmsTactical, but didn't find any data besides their list of recommendations (which does not provide enough data to determine max effective range).

The 75gr TAP sounds promising. This is the Hornady 75gr HPBT bullet loaded to appropriate velocity? Is this the same as the Black Hills 75gr Heavy Match HP? I have a 1 in 8" twist barrel, so it should stabilize this better than the 1 in 9" barrels do.


From curiosity: If you're in an urban setting, aren't the odds greatly against shots at 200 to 300 yards? If you can see them, they can see you--bummer--or you'd be signifying your position. And, what are your neighbors doing?

If you're in a rural setting, aren't there other cartridges which would be far more useful at the more-probable longer ranges? And, I'd think, with more likely fewer Bad Guys?
Click to expand...
The scenario is unlikely, I agree, but given the choice between a round that can reach out an extra 100 yards over one that can't, all else equal, I'd rather have the former.

cpileri asked about loads out of a 7.5" upper. Check the Jan 2003 issue of S.W.A.T. magazine. There's an article about the SIG 552 Commando with a 9.5" barrel which includes chrono and accuracy results from about 20 (?) various loads. This should give you an idea what to expect.

regards
Zak
 
B

Bartholomew Roberts

Moderator
For example: How does terminal velocity affect the expansion and effectiveness of the 75gr TAP, the 69gr TAP, the 77 SMK? (Bartholemew Roberts alluded to some data for the 77gr.)
Click to expand...

If you've checked the Ammo FAQ at AR15.com (and I assume you have), I recommend you search all of DocGKRs posts at Tactical Forums. There is a wealth of good info on 5.56mm terminal ballistics in there. I'd also try and get my hands on some of the research papers done on that same subject. They are public domain.

This is the Hornady 75gr HPBT bullet loaded to appropriate velocity? Is this the same as the Black Hills 75gr Heavy Match HP?
Click to expand...

The Black Hills 75gr round uses the same Hornady 75gr BTHP that Hornady uses in their TAP and Match ammo loaded to 2,750fps (20" barrel).

Does anyone have any more information about this 100gr BTHP bullet, or Black Hills' loading of it? It's not listed on their web-site...
Click to expand...

It is an experimental load that is rarer than hen's teeth; but I've heard you can get it direct from Black Hills if you are willing to commit to dealer/agency sized amounts of ammo. Haven't seen the actual ammo and only a few references to it, so take that with a grain of salt.
 
A

Armadillo

New member
Don't forget about the 64gr Winchester PowerPoint Plus. It is supposed to be a terrific performer, can be readily obtained, and will be nicely stabilized by 1:8-1:9 barrels. Being a soft point it should be resistant to velocity loss.

And everybody knows that black bullets are far deadlier than yellow ones...:rolleyes:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top