.222 Remington

[Uncle Buck]

Interesting cartridge to reload.

I bought 100 pieces of Remington Brass for my .222 and decided to run it all through my full length resizing die along with what little spent factory ammo I had.

This process really seems to push the shoulder back quite a ways. Overall length remains pretty much the same (1.700) but the necks are much longer. I do have to trim some of the brass, even the new stuff.

This ammo will only be fired out of one gun for now. Should I have just used a collet die set for the already fired brass? After all, the brass is already fire formed to this gun. I have both the collet die (Which neck sizes only) and the full length resizing die.

(The used brass has only been fired once.)

Also, when Reworking the brass like this, should I consider annealing it when I go to reload again?

I am starting out with H4895 (start load of 20 grains) using a 50 grain Spitzer type bullet.

 

[jepp2]

This process really seems to push the shoulder back quite a ways.

The sizing die only sets the shoulder back as far as you have it adjusted to. How did you set your sizing die? Hopefully by measuring the shoulder set back, and not using something like "turn the die down until it contacts the shell holder, then lower the ram on the press and turn the die another 1/4 turn" or something that doesn't actually allow you to set the headspace properly.

If the brass chambered fine in your rifle after firing, I would have just used the collet die. The collet die will tell you when annealing is required. When the neck doesn't size down the same it is time for annealing.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Jepp,

Yes, that is exactly how I adjusted the die.

Can you tell me how I should adjust it?

I think by reading your comment I should have used one of the fire shells (I know they fit the rifle) and adjusted it down to the point the expander ball just went into the shell, past the neck. Is that the way you think I should adjust it?

I have not had this happen with the 30-30, 30-06 or .243. Something just does not feel right and that is why I asked the question. I appreciate your input.

 

[jepp2]

I prefer the Hornady Lock-N-Load gage but a Wilson Cartridge Gage will work also.

The key is that you are targeting approximately 0.002" setback on the shoulder for proper headspace. Due to the manufacturing variation in the dies and in conjunction with the shell holder used, it can result in either too little or too much headspace if you just use some given statement to adjust your die. Just to give you an idea of how little adjustment is necessary for 0.002" headspace change on a die:

 

[jepp2]

I should have used one of the fire shells (I know they fit the rifle) and adjusted it down to the point the expander ball just went into the shell, past the neck.

Not quite sure how you are describing adjusting the die here? But yes, do take a shell fired from your rifle. You use the tools I listed to establish the headspace, then measure for change. You can also smoke the shoulder with a candle and adjust the die down until it just removes the soot on the shoulder. But that method doesn't assure you didn't adjust it too far.

Keep in mind that excessive headspace allows the round to chamber normally. If you have way too much, the firing pin may not cause the primer to go off. But it can result in case head separations which are very bad. And excessive headspace will seriously shorten the life of the case.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Thanks Jepp.

What I was trying to say is; There is probably no need to full length size the cartridge, because it already fits the rifle chamber.

Run the dies down the cartridge just as far as I can feel the expander ball go through the neck. Then stop and remove.

I honestly did not even thing about the head-space issue. I have done a little work on one of my 30-06, getting the head space very very close and working with get the bullet close to the lands.

I think the collet die will do what you are describing best and I understand it better now. Thanks.

I have never used a collet dies before and was more comfortable using the FL Resizing die. This is going to be fun and I am actually looking forward to doing a little more work with this round.

Another question for you: I have usually used boat tail bullets, but all of the .224 bullets I have are flat bottom. right now, brass out of the bag (About 80 pieces left) and the ones I have run through the resizing die do not allow me to start the bullet. Is this corrected by using the chamfer and deburring tool?

Straight walled pistol cases (belled) and rifle cartridges in which I have used the boat tails allow the bullet to easily sit on the top of the case until I seat them. I have not had to use the chamfer tool yet.

 

[jepp2]

The neck needs to be sized for proper neck tension to retain the bullet. On a FL die, this is done by the neck first being sized smaller by the die, then the expander increases the case neck for the bullet. Since the expander is on the decapping rod, and it adjusts somewhat independent of the die, just because the expander enters the case doesn't insure the case neck has been sized.

It is easy enough to see how much of the case neck has entered the neck portion of the die by just looking at it after sizing. But, when you neck size using a FL die but don't FL size, the case shoulder moves forward (longer) due to the sizing action on the case wall. So it might no longer chamber in your rifle. I find the shoulder moves forward 1-2 thousandths when I use a body die to size the brass.

The benefits of the Lee Collet die are:
1. low case neck runout - great for accuracy
2. no lube necessary
3. case neck is sized for adequate neck tension without working the neck as much as a FL die does, so your brass should last much longer

I always chamfer the inside and outside of the neck on new brass, and after I trim. This slight chamfer allows the flat base bullet to seat properly. Takes a bit more pressure to start than a boat tail bullet, but will seat just fine.

 

[Unclenick]

Uncle Buck,

A couple of comments.

When you push the shoulder back on a case, the brass you are squeezing down has to go somewhere, and that somewhere is the neck. That's why FL sizing makes the neck longer, and it's why you normally trim after sizing and not before.

A number of benchrest guys say the best accuracy comes from neck sizing then bumping the shoulder back just .001". You can do this by sizing the neck with a Lee Collet Die, then bumping the shoulder back with a Redding Body Die, or any make of neck bushing die that has had the neck bushing removed. This makes sizing a two-step process, but gives you the straightest necks you are going to get. It also narrows the case a little which lets it find center when the primer backs out of the cup and pushes the case shoulder that last .001" into the chamber shoulder.

You can make the adjustment by printing and cutting out and using my die calibration scales that Jepp2 posted to get the die position right, but you may still find a little variation, especially between old and new cases. This is due to variation in hardness of the brass. But once you know how far back the die has to be, you can glue a piece of shim stock the right thickness to a spare shell holder, like the free one that comes with your Lee Collet Die, for a permanent setup solution (though this will marry it to your gun's chamber).

For powder, you'll find IMR4895 is too slow for decent burning efficiency with your bullet weight. It is used in .223 with heavier match bullets, but that's a bigger case, making it easier for a slower powder to work, and those longer bullets require a faster twist than a .222 Remington has. I always got the best results in .222 Remington with flat base bullets, either 50 grain flat base varmint bullets or the Sierra 53 grain MatchKing and IMR4198 or H4198 powder and a mild primer. Federal 205M, or Tula or Wolf KVB223 primers (not the KVB223M). You can use Federal 205M, because M stands for "Match" in Federal-speak, but it stands for "Magnum" in Tula and Wolf-speak.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Uncklenick,

First - Congratulations on becoming a staff member.

We chose the H4895 based on what we had on hand, a little over 10 pounds and info on Loadata.com. The Speer handloading book says the best results were with a 50 -55 grain bullet. (I am also using the CCI Primer recommended, I think it is the 400, but they are locked away at the moment, I do not keep my primers here with my powder.)

Jepp really openned my eyes on this cartridge and then your reply just wants me to reload it much more. I enjoy fiddling around with stuff. I had never seen the brass move so much when I had resized a cartridge before. (One of the reasons I asked about annealing them, I figured if that brass moved as much as it did, it was going to be awful thin and would harden quicker.)

Again, thank you guys.

 

[a7mmnut]

I've been loading for my grandad's old Savage 340 Deuce for a long time. While 4198 and RL 7 have always been staples for the 50-53 gr. loads, remember that ball powders will do very well in the smaller cases--even with less density. Win. 748 is my pick, but BL-C(2) works as well or better. The only powder I really felt I shouldn't have neglected for this caliber was H322. If you have 10 lbs. of the wrong powder on hand, you should easily be able to trade or barter off a couple of cans for some better stuff. I've done this with my shooting buds all my life to keep the pennie$ down. -7-

 

[Uncle Buck]

I have several other guns which can use the H4895. At the rate my nephews are using my 30-06 loads up, I may even have to buy a bunch of new brass just to use it.

 

[Uncle Buck]

We loaded 20 grains of H4198 and 20 grains of H4895 into our cases. Both performed nicely but H4198 seemed to be a little more accurate. The groups were tighter and the gun just felt "better" with the H4198.

Thanks again for your help.

 

[Sport45]

This process really seems to push the shoulder back quite a ways. Overall length remains pretty much the same (1.700) but the necks are much longer.

Sure it's .222 brass? A .222 die would do that to .223 brass.

I know because a piece of .222 brass accidently run through my .223 die wound up looking like a partially neck sized .223 with a super long neck.

 

[old roper]

Uncle Buck, Remington made the 40x in 222 and they send test targets two five shot groups and they gave loads at least when I was buying them.

The 40x I got had two test target both groups in the .2's using 23.5gr/IMR-4895 with 52gr Berger bullet. In the 40x 223 test target groups in the high .2's and option I had a 1/4 twist barrel installed load used
26gr/IMR-4895 with 52gr bullet and that same load used in the 40x 222mag.

If you shooting H-4198 and H-4895 there big different if shooting same loads as to accuracy.

18gr to 20gr/H-4198 is Speer load for the 50gr bullet

22gr to 24gr/H-4895 is Speer load for the 50gr bullet

With the 40X's and test target and my own work up with IMR-4895/52 bullet I used those test target loads. I don't have the 40X's sold them all last year.

I do have customs in 222,223 and 222mag can't tell much different between
IMR-4895 and H-4895.