I have a couple old .22's. Marlin pump model 20 and 29. Also a Stevens Favorite. On pretty much all of them, when fired now adays the spent case swells and gets stuck in the chamber. So much so the extractor will not grab it. It's not a extractor issue. Seems like the chamber inside diameter has increased ever so slightly. Why has this happened? or what has made this occur? A real bummer as these are functionally fine little rifles and would be fun shooters. Thanks all.
.22 long rifle chamber swell
- Thread starter SRE
- Start date
Gunplummer
New member
If you have changed the length of the bullets you use over the years, there could be a "Carbon ring" in the chamber. For example: You shoot a lot of .22 shorts and get a ring built up in front of the case. When you then shoot longs or long rifle in the same gun, the case can get stuck because it is now past the ring when it expands.
Erosion
Be Safe !!!
It's possible that there is erosion in the breech from firing too many rounds of .22-shorts. This is common on older rifles. For example, Gallery-Guns. I use to love shooting these as a kid and I suppose that is where my shooting got started. Never could shoot out the entire star. .....
Be Safe !!!
Blindstitch
New member
michaelcj's answer is what I was going to say. And you have several rifles that could use that tool.
Larry Potterfield from Midway has a video of how it works.
Larry Potterfield from Midway has a video of how it works.
Blindstitch
New member
Here's the video.
https://youtu.be/aqUZwIf0J2k
https://youtu.be/aqUZwIf0J2k
Yes, extensive firing can cause the chamber to swell, and it does happen with the soft steel used in old .22 barrels.
When the pressure causes the case to expand, it does compress the steel of the chamber a very tiny bit each time. Many thousands of rounds would be needed to cause the expansion described, and it is more likely to be due to overcleaning or using abrasive to clean the chamber. But the .22 LR runs a fairly hefty 24k psi pressure, and that can have an effect on the surrounding metal.
Whatever the cause of an oversize chamber, the only real solution is to have the barrel lined. Since the liner includes the chamber, the problem is solved and the old rifle returned to service.
Jim
When the pressure causes the case to expand, it does compress the steel of the chamber a very tiny bit each time. Many thousands of rounds would be needed to cause the expansion described, and it is more likely to be due to overcleaning or using abrasive to clean the chamber. But the .22 LR runs a fairly hefty 24k psi pressure, and that can have an effect on the surrounding metal.
Whatever the cause of an oversize chamber, the only real solution is to have the barrel lined. Since the liner includes the chamber, the problem is solved and the old rifle returned to service.
Jim
FrankenMauser
New member
A slide constantly slamming into the barrel can cause the rear of the chamber to 'shrink' via peening.
I've had to open the chamber of my Buckmark pistol (130,000+ rounds) twice, to keep it running. I honestly have no idea whether or not the chamber has swelled at all (fired cases don't show symptoms), but I do know that the breech face was smaller than the middle of the chamber. ...And opening it with the Menck chamber iron solved the problem. (For now... Eventually, I'll have to have the slide fixed, too, since it's 'closing up' as well. But that's a different subject.)
In addition, I've had to use the chamber iron on a number of .22 rimfires that had chamber peening from firing pin strikes or simply tight spots that caused difficult extraction.
FrankenMauser
New member
Ah, I see.
Perhaps you count point me toward these firearms that operate via magic, rather than mechanical principles?
The "chamber iron" is a fairly new idea; I usually just used a chamber reamer, but that has the disadvantage of cutting off firing pin peening, rather than pressing it back down. But the problem usually is that the firing pin has damaged the face of the chamber so there is no support for the case rim and the firing pin just pushes it in causing a misfire.
The horrible fact is that once those old rimfires get beat up, it is often just plain impossible to fix them except by lining the barrel. The liner is not wasted; if the chamber is bad, chances are that the rifling is bad or non-existent, and lining will fix that also.
Jim
The horrible fact is that once those old rimfires get beat up, it is often just plain impossible to fix them except by lining the barrel. The liner is not wasted; if the chamber is bad, chances are that the rifling is bad or non-existent, and lining will fix that also.
Jim
Dixie Gunsmithing
Moderator Emeritus
I'm like Jim, as most of those old .22 pumps, especially those that have had a lot of shorts ran through them, will be better off with a relining. Many gunsmiths can do this, and it isn't as expensive as one would think.
If the rifling was in very good shape, I might look at trying to clean it up first, but if there is a ring eroded from shooting shorts, you would probably still be better off with a relining, IMO. It is according to how deep the ring is, if it has one, and whether a slight amount of honing might clean it up, without opening up the chamber too much.
The only other cure would be setting the barrel back, and cutting a new chamber, but that costs way more than relining.
If the rifling was in very good shape, I might look at trying to clean it up first, but if there is a ring eroded from shooting shorts, you would probably still be better off with a relining, IMO. It is according to how deep the ring is, if it has one, and whether a slight amount of honing might clean it up, without opening up the chamber too much.
The only other cure would be setting the barrel back, and cutting a new chamber, but that costs way more than relining.
Jim Watson
New member
A Brownells Gunsmith's Kink described bushing a .22 chamber with a piece of Chevvy V8 pushrod. Correct I.D., good steel. Assumes a good bore even though the chamber is bad.
I have never been a fan of chamber bushings, though thousands of 7x57 Chilean rifles were converted to 7.62 NATO by that method plus reboring and re-rifling the barrel. The trouble is that the pressure forces gas and crud into the (almost inevitable) crack between the original barrel and the bushing so the bushing eventually loosens up. Doing a lining job is the best way, and it can be a DIY job for a careful workman, though the reamer is a bit costly.
Just to again issue a warning. When a barrel is lined, the liner itself has to be strong enough to withstand the pressure of firing. That is why regular liners are not used for high pressure rounds, though they are OK for cartridges like the .44-40, .38-40, .32-20 and the like, as well as rimfire calibers.
Jim
Just to again issue a warning. When a barrel is lined, the liner itself has to be strong enough to withstand the pressure of firing. That is why regular liners are not used for high pressure rounds, though they are OK for cartridges like the .44-40, .38-40, .32-20 and the like, as well as rimfire calibers.
Jim
Jim Watson
New member
In general, yes, but...
Those 7mm bored and bushed to .30 are scary; a .22 not so much.
And a fully fit contact between bushing and barrel is not simple.
I figure that Kink originated in a day and age when you couldn't just click on a stock number and order up a liner and reamer, and when a second hand .22 wasn't worth the cost, either.
I have the perception that a general gunsmith used to have more tools and fewer catalogs. My FLG says that when he was seriously working on guns in the Golden Age of Surplus to Your Doorstep, a lathe was standard equipment. Nowadays you get a short chambered barrel and a hand reamer.
Those 7mm bored and bushed to .30 are scary; a .22 not so much.
And a fully fit contact between bushing and barrel is not simple.
I figure that Kink originated in a day and age when you couldn't just click on a stock number and order up a liner and reamer, and when a second hand .22 wasn't worth the cost, either.
I have the perception that a general gunsmith used to have more tools and fewer catalogs. My FLG says that when he was seriously working on guns in the Golden Age of Surplus to Your Doorstep, a lathe was standard equipment. Nowadays you get a short chambered barrel and a hand reamer.
I think what has changed is not so much that there are new tools, but that the old ones are a lot more available. In those days, Brownells was pretty much known only to professional gunsmiths, and buying tools like reamers meant dealing with the manufacturers. The result is that, for better or worse, there is a lot more DIY in gun work. That, plus more laws and regulations, reduced the number of professional gunsmiths and increased the number of, to be charitable, less experienced "professionals" and DIY hack jobs.
Plus, the beginner can get a lot of advice (some of it bad) and help from the internet, a resource that was not available to the old timers.
Jim
Plus, the beginner can get a lot of advice (some of it bad) and help from the internet, a resource that was not available to the old timers.
Jim
Dixie Gunsmithing
Moderator Emeritus
I remember when Brownell's catalog was about the size of a thick magazine, but now it's a tome, with specialty catalogs too.
I miss Brownell's old toothpaste tubed Acra-Weld, as it was thick enough to use without it sagging. That went by another name, early on, and they had it branded for them, later. What they have now, in that syringe, I think it's too thin. All of it that they have, now, is 3M epoxy glues.
I miss Brownell's old toothpaste tubed Acra-Weld, as it was thick enough to use without it sagging. That went by another name, early on, and they had it branded for them, later. What they have now, in that syringe, I think it's too thin. All of it that they have, now, is 3M epoxy glues.